Fact: Protestants are not brothers and sisters


#1

Its commonly said even among preists that protestants are called our brothers and sisters in Christ. This can’t be correct since protestants live in heresey. Obviously the ideas of bible alone and faith alone have long been proven to be false. Also the term that we are all brothers in the body of Christ is wrong because, only those who partake in the Eucharist partake in the Body of Christ not protestants who view as a symbol.


#2

There are various types of heresy, if you investigate them you will find why your contention is flawed. Protestants of today cannot be charged with formal heresy as they do not depart in full knowledge of the Church and reject it. Material heresy is more descriptive. Also, considering that both the Catholic and Orthodox view either as having heterodox theology in certain areas it strikes me that this is a rash charge to make indeed as it is a two edged sword.


#3

[quote="jasonjessica09, post:1, topic:276857"]
Its commonly said even among preists that protestants are called our brothers and sisters in Christ. This can't be correct since protestants live in heresey. Obviously the ideas of bible alone and faith alone have long been proven to be false. Also the term that we are all brothers in the body of Christ is wrong because, only those who partake in the Eucharist partake in the Body of Christ not protestants who view as a symbol.

[/quote]

Sigh.

You clearly are out of step with Church teaching. From the Catechism:

818 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers .... All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."


#4

Most Protestants are are brothers and sisters in Christ because we share the same Baptism. :slight_smile: The Catholic Church recognizes the validity of their Baptism if it has been done with the correct form and matter.


#5

Do we become the adoptive children of God through baptism? Is the trinitarian baptism of the protestants recognized as valid by the Church? If your answer to both questions is yes, then logic says that they are our brethren.


#6

Maybe technically that is right since Baptism is considered valid, but what about beyond that? Protestanism has caused a serious rupture in the Christian West and many souls continue to sin because they think that all they have to do is belive in Jesus and they are saved, which certainly is not true. I do believe Orthodox to be our brothers and sisters in Christ though because they are Apostolic and they participate in the Sacrifice of Jesus in the Eucharist.


#7

I would be loathe to approach the Catechism with a view as to certain sections of it been 'technically right'.


#8

[quote="jasonjessica09, post:6, topic:276857"]
Maybe technically that is right since Baptism is considered valid, but what about beyond that? Protestanism has caused a serious rupture in the Christian West and many souls continue to sin because they think that all they have to do is belive in Jesus and they are saved, which certainly is not true. I do believe Orthodox to be our brothers and sisters in Christ though because they are Apostolic and they participate in the Sacrifice of Jesus in the Eucharist.

[/quote]

I suggest you dust off the Catechism and read the entire sections.

I also suggest you read:

vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decree_19641121_unitatis-redintegratio_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_25051995_ut-unum-sint_en.html


#9

[quote="JharekCarnelian, post:7, topic:276857"]
I would be loathe to approach the Catechism with a view as to certain sections of it been 'technically right'.

[/quote]

I am the original poster (OP). To reply to this poster, I would loate it too, but thats not my point sir. The point is that any protestant who strongly belives in the fundamental principals such as sola fide, sola scriptura, and does not partake in the Eucharist because of their disbelief is in heresy. So the term "brothers and sisters in Christ" is not the proper term to use. What might be a better term I dont know. The Catechism is no doubt correct though. I just think the replys are missing my point


#10

The Church teaches otherwise.

You obstinately deny what the Church teaches.


#11

Seperated brethren is one usage I have seen. Also as the sections from the Catechism make clear you cannot charge those who were not part of the Church and did not knowingly reject it's doctrines with heresy in this fashion. It is one reason why the excommunication of the Orthodox Church was lifted as it could not be reasonably maintained as just to admonish those now living for the mistakes of those dead for many centuries.


#12

Since the link was given, lets look at the degree of Ecumrism then:

"There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one Baptism".(6) For "all you who have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ ... for you are all one in Christ Jesus".(7)

I'm referring to the literal term "brothers and sisters in Christ". Here the statement says "for you are all one in Christ Jesus". I can see how you can interpret that to mean brothers and sisters. But that term makes it sound that we are all unified thus catholics, baptits, luthertans, beliefs are equal and that being a protestant is ok which is clearly not the case. WE (as in the posters here) know in context that this term "brothers and sisters and Christ" is true in the sense of baptism ...but not much else. However a fairweather Catholic or protestant Christain may not recognize that. The Catholic/Orthodox apostolic faith represents the fullness of being a Christain because all of the sacraments are available to be recieved. Not protestantism. My point is still not being addressed. All I am getting in response is that I am out of line with the Church or the Catechism. Not at all kind posters. Thank you.


#13

I think your question has been answered reasonably well. Also many of the Orthodox would not regard our sacraments as valid or would be uncertain as to their validity as you may be aware.


#14

They share our Baptism so they are our brothers and sisters in Christ. Estranged, perhaps, but still our spiritual siblings.


#15

They believe that Jesus Christ is the risen Lord.

They believe that He is the Son of God.

They believe that Jesus was crucified for our sins.

They believe in the Holy Spirit.

They believe in the Trinity, a mystery which is not fully understandable with our earthly minds.

They believe in one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.

They believe that Jesus will come again.

The things they don't believe: Infant baptism - Veneration of Mary - Communion of Saints - and the Biggie - The Real Presence.

Oh, and the establishment of Peter as the first Pope and the succession of popes...The establishment of the Catholic Church as God's Church.

The Church says Protestants ARE our separated brethren and that is good enough for me.


#16

[quote="jasonjessica09, post:6, topic:276857"]
Maybe technically that is right since Baptism is considered valid, but what about beyond that? Protestanism has caused a serious rupture in the Christian West and many souls continue to sin because they think that all they have to do is belive in Jesus and they are saved, which certainly is not true. I do believe Orthodox to be our brothers and sisters in Christ though because they are Apostolic and they participate in the Sacrifice of Jesus in the Eucharist.

[/quote]

Well if I were to follow your logic then a lot of Catholics would technically be my brethren but what about beyond that? Some of them are more schismatic and damaging to our faith then the protestants.


#17

jasonjessica
This can't be correct since protestants live in heresey.

What do you hope will happen, by adopting this stance?

Blessings

Eric


#18

[quote="jasonjessica09, post:12, topic:276857"]
Since the link was given, lets look at the degree of Ecumrism then:

"There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one Baptism".(6) For "all you who have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ ... for you are all one in Christ Jesus".(7)

I'm referring to the literal term "brothers and sisters in Christ". Here the statement says "for you are all one in Christ Jesus". I can see how you can interpret that to mean brothers and sisters. But that term makes it sound that we are all unified thus catholics, baptits, luthertans, beliefs are equal and that being a protestant is ok which is clearly not the case. WE (as in the posters here) know in context that this term "brothers and sisters and Christ" is true in the sense of baptism ...but not much else. However a fairweather Catholic or protestant Christain may not recognize that. The Catholic/Orthodox apostolic faith represents the fullness of being a Christain because all of the sacraments are available to be recieved. Not protestantism. My point is still not being addressed. All I am getting in response is that I am out of line with the Church or the Catechism. Not at all kind posters. Thank you.

[/quote]

It may sound to you like we are all unified and our beliefs are equal, but the Church does not teach that. We as Catholics have the fullness of the faith and are to bring the fullness of the Gospel to not only our separated brothers and sisters, but even evangelize our fellow Catholics in the fullness of the one true faith. Jesus prayed that we all be one. We have a lot of work to do to bring all to this fullness. We are sent out of every Mass, after receiving the Holy Eucharist, with this commission.


#19

[quote="jasonjessica09, post:12, topic:276857"]
Since the link was given, lets look at the degree of Ecumrism then:

"There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one Baptism".(6) For "all you who have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ ... for you are all one in Christ Jesus".(7)

I'm referring to the literal term "brothers and sisters in Christ". Here the statement says "for you are all one in Christ Jesus". I can see how you can interpret that to mean brothers and sisters. But that term makes it sound that we are all unified thus catholics, baptits, luthertans, beliefs are equal and that being a protestant is ok which is clearly not the case. WE (as in the posters here) know in context that this term "brothers and sisters and Christ" is true in the sense of baptism ...but not much else. However a fairweather Catholic or protestant Christain may not recognize that. The Catholic/Orthodox apostolic faith represents the fullness of being a Christain because all of the sacraments are available to be recieved. Not protestantism. My point is still not being addressed. All I am getting in response is that I am out of line with the Church or the Catechism. Not at all kind posters. Thank you.

[/quote]

What part of this quote from the Catechism is unclear?

"...Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers"


#20

[quote="jasonjessica09, post:1, topic:276857"]
Its commonly said even among preists that protestants are called our brothers and sisters in Christ. This can't be correct since protestants live in heresey. Obviously the ideas of bible alone and faith alone have long been proven to be false. Also the term that we are all brothers in the body of Christ is wrong because, only those who partake in the Eucharist partake in the Body of Christ not protestants who view as a symbol.

[/quote]

Interesting that you charge others with not following your church's teachings while seemingly doing so yourself.

Here's webster's definition of heretic for your consideration: one who dissents from an accepted belief or doctrine


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