Faith alone in Romans


#1

How do do the interpreters of the bible at the Vatican, regard the writings by St Paul in the letters to the Romans about Faith alone?


#2

[quote="123Strontium, post:1, topic:317825"]
How do do the interpreters of the bible at the Vatican, regard the writings by St Paul in the letters to the Romans about Faith alone?

[/quote]

Where does St. Paul talk about faith alone?


#3

[quote="123Strontium, post:1, topic:317825"]
How do do the interpreters of the bible at the Vatican, regard the writings by St Paul in the letters to the Romans about Faith alone?

[/quote]

Paul does not write about "Faith alone"

(the word "alone" was added by Martin Luther in his translation--of course in German)

But yes Paul does talk about Faith! Amen

Here Pope Benedict XVI on Paul and Faith and Works:

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20081119_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20081126_en.html (begins second paragraph)

and earlier one vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2006/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20061108_en.html


#4

[quote="123Strontium, post:1, topic:317825"]
How do do the interpreters of the bible at the Vatican, regard the writings by St Paul in the letters to the Romans about Faith alone?

[/quote]

From the Ignatius Catholic Study Bible (not necessarily the "Vatican")

Faith is a gift of grace that moves us toward God (PHIL 1:29). It leads to justification because it leads to baptism. Catholic theology holds that faith does not act alone in this process but reaches out with hope for divine mercy and love for the Lord. Faith manifests itself in the lives of believers through obedience (Romans 1:5) love (gal 5:6) and good works (eph 2:10)

The council of Trent decreed in 1547 that man, by his own efforts and works, can never merit the initial grace of justification that makes him a child of God and a member of the new covenant. This gift is an entirely free gift from Jesus Christ conferred in Baptism.

What verses in particular?

Keep in mind these letters are pastoral in which they are addressed to specific communities needing guidance in specific areas. They are not blanket statements that lead to conversion. They are instructional and were written for new Churches after their conversion.


#5

Faith and good works

St Paul wrote:
Gal 6:7-9
Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption; but he who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. And l*et us not grow weary in well-doing,* for in due season we shall reap, if we do not lose heart.

St Paul wrote:
"Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure. Phil 2:12-13

St James wrote also in the bible,
Take the case, my brothers of someone who has never done a single good act but claims that he has faith. Will that faith save him? If one of the brothers or one of the sisters is in need of clothes and has not enough food to live on, and one of you says to them, 'I wish you well; keep yourself warm and eat plenty', without giving them these bare necessities of llife, then what good is that?: if good works do not go with it, it is quite dead.
This is the way to talk to people of that kind:'You say you have faith and I have good deeds; I will prove to you that I have faith by showing you my good deeds--now you prove to me that you have faith without any good deeds to show.

You believe in one God--that is creditable enough, but the demons have the same belief, and they tremble with fear. Do realise, you senseless man, that faith without works is useless. You surely know that Abraham our Father was justified by his deed, because he offered Isaac on the altar? There you see it; faith and good deeds were working together; his faith became perfect by what he did. This is what scripture really means when it says: Abraham put his faith in God, and this was counted as making him justified; and that is why he was called the friend of God. You see now that it is by doing something good, and not only by believing, that a man is justified." [James 2: 14-24]

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven will enter" [Matthew 7, 21].

God bless you.


#6

Paul does not write about "Faith alone". He writes about "Faith" to the Romans who thought they needed circumcision. There is only one place is Scripture where "faith alone" appears...and it is immediately after the words "not by".


#7

[quote="123Strontium, post:1, topic:317825"]
How do do the interpreters of the bible at the Vatican, regard the writings by St Paul in the letters to the Romans about Faith alone?

[/quote]

It's generally understood, even by most Protestant scholars, that when Paul is discussing works in Romans, he is talking about works of the Law, that is, the Mosaic Law, certainly neither the natural moral law nor that of Christ.

Context is so important. Paul is writing to a primarily Jewish Christian community in Rome, though there are Gentiles there too, and his emphasis is that through faith in Christ we are saved, not by continuing (or becoming initiated into) the old Mosaic Law. That Law is kaput.

Perhaps it was this letter and then Paul's subsequent visit to Rome that caused all the trouble between Jews and Christians that convinced Claudius to expel them from the city.


#8

Two links to help you with this -

(Commentary on Faith and works from the Ignatius Study Bible)
coptics.info/Bible_Study/TheIgnatiusC-leNewTestament_split_173.html

(A talk on Romans 2 and 3)
salvationhistory.com/studies/lesson/justification_faith_and_works_of_the_law_romans_2-3


#9

It is impossible for faith to be alone


#10

Isn’t it rendered “faith apart from works?”


#11

If the new birth occurs in baptism, which can be clearly seen, and some who are baptized show no evidence of being spiritually alive, how does that jive w/this?

"The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.” --John 3:8


#12

Of the three theological virtues of faith, hope and love, faith comes first and is our entry into the divine life via those virtues. Paul says, in Romans 3:28 that we are "justified by faith", but later on in the same letter, he teaches that we are "saved by hope" Romans 8:24. But, even hope is not final, as it will pass away when that which is hoped for arrives. In 1 Corinthians 13:13 he teaches that love is greater than either faith or hope - for in heaven there will be only love - faith and hope having passed away as the imperfect becomes the perfect (1 Corinthians 13:10,12). God is not faith; He is not hope - He is love. How shall we be like Him (Matthew 5:48) if our faith does not mature to love?

Thus, faith is your first step as a partaker of the divine nature (2 Peter 1:4), but it remains immature, meaning that you are fed on milk and not solid food (1 Corinthians 3:2, Hebrews 5:12). Milk will not sustain you for your entire life - you need solid food. Faith is intended to generate hope, which is a maturing factor of faith. Yet, if both of these virtues do not lead to love - a reflection of the purity of God's love - your faith is like a clanging cymbal (1 Corinthians 13:1). Faith is merely the first step on our journey to eternity.

Read Matthew 25:14-30 - the parable of the talents. All three servants had faith in their master. Yet, only two served him out of love and provided him with an increase, according to their abilities. The third did not move beyond faith to either hope or love, and was cast out of the master's house. At the reckoning, he provided only his faith, which was insufficient. The master expects an increase, and that requires not only the possession of, but also the working of love on our part.


#13

Stop making me think further, can't you see I've made up my mind?! :D


#14

The ONLY place in the bible where you find the EXACT words--"FALITH ALONE" is in James 2:24 where it says we are NOT saved by "FAITH ALONE"!

If you don't want to go to Hell then believe James 2:24 and don't believe in "FAITH ALONE"!

There is one great church that doesn't believe in "FAITH ALONE".

It is the Catholic Church.

Join it and persevere and go to heaven!


#15

[quote="Bookcat, post:3, topic:317825"]
Paul does not write about "Faith alone"

(the word "alone" was added by Martin Luther in his translation--of course in German)

But yes Paul does talk about Faith! Amen

Here Pope Benedict XVI on Paul and Faith and Works:

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20081119_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20081126_en.html (begins second paragraph)

and earlier one vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2006/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20061108_en.html

[/quote]


#16

I don't know how anyone can misunderstand what James is saying, he's not saying a person is justified by faith and works, but rather a faith that produces good works. This is clearly seen by the rhetorical question he asks; can "such a faith", save him? Which begs the answer no. If this were not true we would not have the joint declaration on the doctrine of justification in "Evangelicals and Catholics Together." Having said that, some seem to sit on their dead *** waiting for "the Spirit to move them", when they probably just need a kick in the arse! :D


#17

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