Faith-Alone saves


#1

Faith leads to trust.

Trust leads to hearing.

Hearing leads to obeying.

Obeying leads to action.

No action means no obeying.

No obeying means no hearing.

No hearing means no trusting.

No trusting means no faith.

Thus, faith-alone also means trust-alone, hearing-alone, obeying-alone, action-alone; because all lead to the other, and the lack of one means the lack of the others.


#2

I think that’s too simplistic. Yes, we have faith to believe. But in the second chapter of James, it says that faith without works is dead. Yet, belief alone isn’t enough. In James 2:19 it says,“You believe that God is one. You do well. Even the demons believe that and tremble.” So, belief alone isn’t enough for salvation.


#3

That’s what I just said.:smiley:


#4

Sadly, there are some Protestant groups out there who believe that faith is ALL you need…nothing else leads to it, nothing else is added.

Nice post, SedeDomi! :thumbsup:


#5

Maybe it IS overly simplistic, but I like it.:thumbsup:

James


#6

Lovely and tight philosophically, but look to Scripture-- the parables are full of Jesus telling us about life as it is and challenging of preconceived ideas about what is acceptable. We must trust God, we must have faith, but we must do our best to be worthy of his love. No right minded person would disagree with this simple truth.


#7

I noticed a flaw in your reasoning.

How did you draw this conclusion that hearing leads to obeying? It may not lead to obeying. This is clearly demonstrated by Jesus in the parable of the sower, where so many people hear the word of God, but do not necessarily obey.

Luke 8:11-15

11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
12 The ones along the path are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, that they may not believe and be saved.
13 And the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy; but these have no root, they believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.
14 And as for what fell among the thorns, they are those who hear, but as they go on their way they are choked by the cares and riches and pleasures of life, and their fruit does not mature.
15 And as for that in the good soil, they are those who, hearing the word,** hold it fast in an honest and good heart, and bring forth fruit (works, isn’t it?)with patience.**

Matthew 7:26

“And every one who hears these words of mine **and does not do them (works, isn’t it?) **will be like a foolish man who built his house upon the sand”

The truth is, God’s grace alone saves!

But for that to happen, we must respond to God’s grace with faith and works.

**“You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.” **(James 2:24)


#8

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:


#9

More realistic:

Trust may lead to hearing.

Hearing ***may lead***to obeying.

Obeying***may lead***to action.

No action may mean no obeying.

No obeying may mean no hearing.

No hearing may mean no trusting.

No trusting may mean no faith.

:wink:


#10

By “hearing” I meant “hearing from the depths of one’s heart, being, and soul”.

Obviously, just because someone merely “hears” the gospel, doesn’t mean diddly.:smiley:


#11

Even if you say that, look at Luke 8:13

“And the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy; but these have no root, they believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

Now just like you said, these people hear from the depths of their hearts, beings and souls, their joy clearly indicates that. But still, they believe only for a while and then fall.

So, once again, hearing (from the depths of one’s heart) may not lead to obedience.


#12

To “receive it with joy” is not necessarily to “receive from the depths of one’s heart”.

There are many types of joy within the human condition. Some of the joy people feel is fairly superficial, like the joy of getting the book you ordered from Amazon.com.

The deeper sorts of joy arise from a much deeper source. Check out Luke 8:15, where the Word falls on “good soil”. This good soil represents the depth of the heart, the deeper, or even deepest sort of joy. When one hears using this heart, this “good soil”, then obedience and action (“works”) naturally follow.


#13

I will not agree with these two statements. Joy is a clear indication of receiving it from the heart (or the depths of the heart, as you put it). But every person may not have a good heart (“good soil”) in him, the way you suggest.

When Jesus talks about the seed that is sown he says that it is sown in the heart (or the depths of the heart, as you put it) (Mt 13:19). But Jesus compares hearts to paths, rocky grounds, grounds with thorns and thistles, and grounds with good soil. (Mt 13:20-23)

So your heart is either a path, a rocky ground, a ground with thorns and thistles or a ground with good soil. It is not that some part of your heart is a path, some is rocky and the other (the depth of the heart) is good soil as you are implying.

If you are consistenly bearing fruit, then it means your heart is “good soil”. Now, there are varying degrees of good soil, some give fruit a hundredfold, another sixty and another thirty (Mt 13:23). But even if it bears less fruit (as in the case of thirty), it still is good soil, but not as good as the one which bears fruit a hundredfold.


#14

Rom 4:4 Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due.

5 But to the **one who does not work, but believes in Him **who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,


#15

The heart, in its true form, is the heart. If there is rocky ground, or thorns, or thistles, then its not the heart. The heart is the good soil itself.

As Paul said, all of us possess the heart, since God gave the heart to all mankind. Some of us, though, don’t live from the heart, from the good soil. Some of us live on rocky ground, or thistle-thickets.


#16

Rom 4:4 Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due.

5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,

Ahhh… I love this verse… And I think it is absolutely hilarious when some branches of Protestants use this verse to ‘prove’ faith alone…

For those not familiar with the surrounding versus… Paul is comparing works of the old Jewish law with faith in Christ.

In Other words, this is a verse talking about having faith and NOT submitting yourself to the Old Law… (things like not eating certain meats… Color of priestly garments, celebrations… etc)

It is a reiteration of when we are told He who submits himself to part of the law submits himself to all of the law and Christs sacrifice amounts to nothing…

What Law?
Jewish Law…

Please do not insult scripture by saying that this means that a person who never does what is right, (IE WORKS) but only has faith is Justified…

Scripture says otherwise James 4:18 (i believe)
“He who knows what is right (works) and does not do it… sins”

How can I be justified if NOT doing those works… the right thing… results in sin…

In Christ


#17

Apparently, you do not love it enough. :frowning:

For those not familiar with the surrounding versus… Paul is comparing works of the old Jewish law with faith in Christ.

In Other words, this is a verse talking about having faith and NOT submitting yourself to the Old Law… (things like not eating certain meats… Color of priestly garments, celebrations… etc)
It is a reiteration of when we are told He who submits himself to part of the law submits himself to all of the law and Christs sacrifice amounts to nothing…

What Law?
Jewish Law…

For those not familiar with Abraham and the book of Romans.

The Law did not exist in Abraham’s time! The works Paul speaks of could not possibly be Jewish cerimonial and diets laws. They did not exist!

Rom 4:1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, discovered in this matter? 2 If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. 3What does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”

Paul’s meaning of works encompasses ALL works, including old Jewish law and works of righteousness (good works)

Rom 9:11 for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God’s purpose according to His choice would stand, **not because of works **but because of Him who calls,

Paul is talking about good works and bad works(sin), ALL works, not just Jewish Law

Romans 4:16. “Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace”.

How can works fit into a promise? Works turn Grace (unmerited favor) into earned wages. It is no longer a gift, but payment.

Rom 11:5 In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time a remnant according to God’s gracious choice. 6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

It’s one or the other, not both! You cannot mix unmerited favor with works! It no longer becomes a gift when merit is earned, it becomes payment.

Titus 3:5 He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

Paul is certainly not talking about the old Jewish law to Titus!

John 6:28-29 “What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?” **“This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him whom He hath sent” **

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

1 Pet 1:5 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade—kept in heaven for you, 5 who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

How can I be justified if NOT doing those works… the right thing… results in sin…

In Christ

You do not understand the legal nature of Justification.

**Phil. 3:9, “and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith.” **


#18

Nope: All you need is love.

The Apostles?
No, the Beatles. John and Paul, two smart men.
(plagarized from the movie, Independence Day) :rolleyes: :slight_smile:

Actually, didn’t someone in Scripture (maybe Paul?) say that “if I have … but I don’t have love. I am nothing” ? (need help - any scripture scholars out there?)

Didn’t Christ say, “love one another as I have loved you” ? Nothing about faith, or belief, or trust, or action …

Just a thought


#19

Yet, belief alone isn’t enough. In James 2:19 it says,“You believe that God is one. You do well. Even the demons believe that and tremble.” So, belief alone isn’t enough for salvation.

That word believe means to put your trust in or faith. Have the demons believed and placed there faith in Jesus alone? Have you not trusted in Christ alone for your salvation or are you trusting in works? See Romans 5:1


#20

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