Faith and baptism


#1

Could someone please tell me how you recnocile those verses in the Bible that say we are saved by baptism with those verses in the Bible that say we are saved by faith along.

Thanks
allischalmers


#2

[quote=allischalmers]Could someone please tell me how you recnocile those verses in the Bible that say we are saved by baptism with those verses in the Bible that say we are saved by faith along.

Thanks
allischalmers
[/quote]

What we are promised in Baptism is ratified (for lack of a better word) by faith in Christ. Remember, baptism is something God does to us. It is freely given by God. Baptism is the Gospel in liquid form. Faith and Baptism are not opposed to each other. Baptism is a free gift - it is not a work. We merely receive God’s grace in baptism. Naturally, unbelief is a rejection of what if given or promised in baptism. And what is given is forgiveness of sins by being united to Christ in His death and resurrection.

So it is not an either/or situation. Either faith or baptism. It is Faith in Christ who we are united to in baptism it a both/and situation.

I hope that helps. :slight_smile:

Mel


#3

[quote=allischalmers]Could someone please tell me how you recnocile those verses in the Bible that say we are saved by baptism with those verses in the Bible that say we are saved by faith along.

Thanks
allischalmers
[/quote]

Excellent question! And the answer is simpler than you think!
Baptism IS FAITH. It is an act of the faith of Jesus Christ.
So is forgiving others, confessing sins, loving one another, etc. These things are all part of the faith, part of loving Jesus, part of obedience to his commands. John 14:21 “Whoever has my commands and observes them is the one who loves me.” Where is faith defined in the bible?

Phil

PS There is NOT ONE VERSE in the bible that says we are saved by faith alone. Luther tried to weasel it into Rom 3:28 but Truth prevailed. The only time that term is actually ever used is in James 2:24 “You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.” How odd that God would inspire Scripture to say that we are not justified by faith alone if, in fact, the very opposite were true - no? I think He meant exactly what He said.

You might find this thread intersesting:

forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=85784


#4

Luke 7:50 (to the woman that washed Jesus feet with her tears and anointed Jesus feet with ointment, Jesus said "Your faith hath saved you."
Why did Jesus not tell her to go and be baptized if baptism was nescessary for salvation?

allischalmers


#5

[quote=allischalmers]Luke 7:50 (to the woman that washed Jesus feet with her tears and anointed Jesus feet with ointment, Jesus said "Your faith hath saved you."
Why did Jesus not tell her to go and be baptized if baptism was nescessary for salvation?

allischalmers
[/quote]

Because it is faith that saves. Baptism is not opposed to faith it is a part of it. He also told His Apostles to go into all the world making disciples… by baptism and teaching them to obey all He has commanded. None of this opposes faith. Remember Jesus was not given this woman the full teaching on every matter. But don’t you think she was baptised at some point?

Not being baptized does not condemn someone. Despising baptism will though. Look at the thief on the Cross. He was also saved by faith. But that does not mean under normal circumstances he would not have gotten baptized.

What is key here is what are the normal means of union with Christ. There are certainly exceptions.

Mel


#6

Then you would agree that you do not have to be baptized to be born again. To do so would be obedient to God,s command, it is a work but not a work that saves us.

allischalmers


#7

Why would you think that? Jesus taught that to be born again, one needs to be baptized: Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
John 3:5 KJVWe are born again by water and Spirit, i.e. we are born again by receiving the Sacrament of Baptism.

Peter teaches exactly what Christ taught: “baptism saves you”. (1Peter 3:21).


#8

[quote=allischalmers]Then you would agree that you do not have to be baptized to be born again. To do so would be obedient to God,s command, it is a work but not a work that saves us.

allischalmers
[/quote]

To answer your original post, there *are *no verses in Scripture that say we are saved “by faith alone.” (You knew that, didn’t you, Allis [love your user name]?)

We would not agree that to forego baptism would be OK. We baptize infants because we believe that actual, sanctifying grace is conveyed by baptism through faith – the faith of the Church in which that infant will be raised.

Here’s what the Catechism of the Catholic Church says:

The sacramental bond of the unity of Christians

1271 Baptism constitutes the foundation of communion among all Christians, including those who are not yet in full communion with the Catholic Church: "For men who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in some, though imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church. Justified by faith in Baptism, [they] are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church."81 "Baptism therefore constitutes the sacramental bond of unity existing among all who through it are reborn."82

An indelible spiritual mark . . .

1272 Incorporated into Christ by Baptism, the person baptized is configured to Christ. Baptism seals the Christian with the indelible spiritual mark (character) of his belonging to Christ. No sin can erase this mark, even if sin prevents Baptism from bearing the fruits of salvation.83 Given once for all, Baptism cannot be repeated.

1273 Incorporated into the Church by Baptism, the faithful have received the sacramental character that consecrates them for Christian religious worship.84 The baptismal seal enables and commits Christians to serve God by a vital participation in the holy liturgy of the Church and to exercise their baptismal priesthood by the witness of holy lives and practical charity.85 1274 The Holy Spirit has marked us with the seal of the Lord (“Dominicus character”) "for the day of redemption."86 "Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life."87 The faithful Christian who has “kept the seal” until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith,"88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.


#9

[quote=allischalmers]Then you would agree that you do not have to be baptized to be born again. To do so would be obedient to God,s command, it is a work but not a work that saves us.

allischalmers
[/quote]

I would agree. But I would disagree that Baptism is primarily something we do. No it is something done to us. It is not a response it is a promise of God.

Remember though, expcetions make bad law. Can one be born again without being baptized? Well of course the thief on the cross was. But the exception only proves the rule.

In the New Testament when someone believed they were baptized immediately. Conversion and the act of baptism were some closely tied together that they were viewed as two parts of one event - being born again. Beyond that when someone believed their entire household was baptized. Households included babies and others who may not have “consented” to baptism. Never-the-less God makes promises to the baptized whether they have the intellectual capacity to understand at the time or not.

Mel


#10

Well suppose that the only time that baby is ever in a church is when it is baptised does God still keep his promises to that baby?

allischalmers


#11

[quote=allischalmers]Well suppose that the only time that baby is ever in a church again is when it is baptised does God still keep his promises to that baby?

allischalmers
[/quote]

You could ask the same question of people who are “saved,” in the sense of responding to an altar call, and then grow cold and turn away from Christ.


#12

[quote=allischalmers]Well suppose that the only time that baby is ever in a church again is when it is baptised does God still keep his promises to that baby?

allischalmers
[/quote]

To that baby? Yes.

To an adult who does not choose to follow Him? No.

Baptism is not a *promise *of heaven. It is when God removes all sin from our life, personal and original. But one must choose to continue to follow Him to recieve the full promise of Christ.


#13

[quote=allischalmers]Then you would agree that you do not have to be baptized to be born again. To do so would be obedient to God,s command…
[/quote]

No, it wouldn’t be obedient. Christians are commanded to be baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.

– Mark L. Chance.


#14

Hi;
I do not beleive in alter calls, that is not to say that God could not use alter calls to make someone aware that he is calling them to salvation. I am aware also that some people except alter calls but are never really converted and try to live like a christian should live but lately fall away. John in one of his letters said "they went out from us because they were not of us."
Paul said in his letter to the Romans that if you are truly saved the the spirit of God witnesses to our spirit that we are the sons of God.

Happy Thankgiving
allischalmers


#15

I would like to point out that even if someone is not formally baptized, they may still be baptized either by blood or by desire. Everyone who is saved goes through one of the three types.

To clarify the faith alone issue. Obviously the Bible explicitly says it is wrong. What it does promote is faith completed by works. The following is James 2: 22 “You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by the works.”


#16

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