Now we are saved by grace the scriptures say. But there were 10 lepers. and they were healed and one came back to Jesus and Jesus said your faith has saved you. So what was he saying?
Grace is attained **BY **faith. Works are good too, they’re not the prime medium of salvation
(as Mormons believe), but Faith Without Works Is Dead. Ultimately it’s Grace that saves,
but to get it, you must have Faith, thereby saving one **TO **Good Works (Out Of Love).
So if you go to absolution then hypothetically and are not contrite is your faith wavering?
Absolution? You mean confession? (I’m weak in “Catholic Lingo”).
One goes to Confession because they are truly sorry, maybe not grieved, but sorry at least.
I may need a little more to answer more.
One thing for SURE He was saying is that when God blesses us in any way–as we all are in many ways–we better remember to say “thank you”.:shrug:
When you read that verse that was read today, you must be profound. If you read it and see, “by your faith you have been saved”, an evangelical or Pentecostal will say see by faith alone he was saved.
But read the verse, be profound. All 10 were cured from the sickness, all 10, Jesus helped, but only 1 came back to give thanks. You see all 10 we can argue had “faith that Jesus was the Messiah”, that’s why they asked him to cure them. But 1 man, returned to give him thanks. 1 man returned and with his actions showed God and thanked him for what he did.
So no, he was not saved by faith alone, his actions played a major role.
I’ve always thought that to understand what Jesus was saying, you really had to look at the whole story too. How often in the many gospels did Jesus cure people? Many times. But if you look, the conversation usually began by a leper or some other ill person begging Him for physical healing–at which point Jesus often responded that because of their faith in Him, He was forgiving their sins and they would be saved. which–if there was even one single pharisee in the vicinity–usually resulted in Jesus being accused of blasphemy or ridiculed as “By what right does he claim to forgive sins?” When you think about it, which is the greater power and gift–to heal an illness or to forgive sins–and which is more important in the long term? Which would be the greater act of healing?
BUT, human yes couldn’t see the forgiveness of sin. They could notice a leper cured of leprosy. So Jesus cured 10 lepers of their physical illness. One was healed spiritually as well, due to his faith and gratitude to Jesus for the first act. The ACT of gratitude to God along with faith saves. That has always been my take on it.
One of my favorite set of Bible verses is from Ephesians 2:8-10:
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God— not because of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
We are saved By grace
We are saved THROUGH faith
We are saved FOR good works.
He did a work in a couple of ways…
…he made a decision for Christ, a work of the intellect
…he physically came to Christ.
Saved by Grace (we can’t do anything without God’s grace), Through Faith, Working in Love.
Scripture is clear that Faith is made complete in works and the only time in all of scripture that the words “faith” and “alone” are used together it says not by “Faith Alone”.
James 2 below
22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by works, 23 and the scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness”; and he was called the friend of God. 24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.
From my experience:
Faith in Jesus Christ >> OBEDIENCE >> Grace from God and Christ
 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father,
through sanctification of the Spirit,
unto obedience << (to what is the question)
sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
The best to you.
The answer really is both.
Romans 3 teaches,* “There is none that does good no not one.”*
Jesus taught, “Why do you call me good? There is only one that is good and that is the Father.”
Jeremiah teaches,* “can a leopard change his spots, or the Ethiopian his skin? Then neither can you who are accustomed to do evil, do good.”*
God destroyed the earth first time around because, “the intentions of men’s hearts was only evil continually.”
And we know that God is going to destroy the world again.
But God has a remnant of sinners which shall be saved from their sins. They are the recipients of grace. Grace comes into the picture as God enables helpless sinners to do what is right. By His grace, God makes the unclean, clean; He removes the heart of stone, and gives the heart of flesh.
By this grace, God gives the evil man the disposition to look to Him for mercy. This is faith and it comes to men as the gift of God. (Ephesians 2.8)
And faith is what motivates us into action.
In other words, by grace, through faith God motivated that leper to do the right thing
This is why the answer is both.
Grace enables us to have faith. Faith enables us to act.
My opinion is this: we are Grace Fully saved by that faith which continues through God will works unto death.
Grace and faith FLOW.
Does a river stand still?
If you are in a state of grace that river is flowing to God and if you are in a state of mortal sin that river is flowing towards the devil.
Always remember this: get out of the way and LET God’s grace flow through you to others!
That’s what love does and without love none of us can make it to God who IS Love!
Faith is a grace, because grace is a gift from God
It’s the other way around. You can’t have faith without grace.
Both faith and grace mean different things to Catholics and Protestants, and it is often pointless to discuss/argue these things.
Grace. There are two basic types
- Sanctifying grace - a supernatural quality inhering in the soul which makes us partakers in the Divine Nature and Divine Life in a real and formal but accidental manner. SG allows us to participate in God without becoming God. One becomes in the state of SG by baptism or confession. One can grow in SG constantly, by doing any meritorious act in the state of SG.
- Actual grace - grace given for a certain time, circumstance, function, etc. The grace to get up and go to Mass is an actual grace. One does not need to be in the state of SG to receive an AG, e.g. receiving the grace for contrition for mortal sins and going to confession.
Additionally there are graces that you can refuse and graces you cannot refuse. More on grace: newadvent.org/cathen/06689x.htm
Faith. Faith is a theological virtue which enables us to believe and adhere to God and all that He has revealed through His Church. Faith requires both SG and right faith, because it has for its object God. Can a heretic have faith? Well, yes if by faith you mean a general belief in God; but this is what faith translates to modern man, and is not actually faith in the Catholic sense. A heretic cannot have faith as a virtue, in the sense of making an act of faith or being led by faith. The beginning of faith is the result of grace. We do not receive grace because we stumbled upon the right faith, but stumble upon the right faith because we receive grace. More on faith: newadvent.org/cathen/05752c.htm
More on virtues: newadvent.org/cathen/15472a.htm
In the Catholic sense of these words, you cannot be saved without faith or grace (save in few circumstances you can be saved without baptism, but it is generally believed that the faith is presented by God to these souls at/near death, who accept upon revelation). NOTE that faith and grace do not mean the same thing to Protestants.
In the spectrum of beliefs on faith/grace/freewill, there are Pelagians (faith and salvation possible without grace), Jesuits (emphasize more free will/works, less grace), Thomists (emphasize less free will/works, more grace), Lutherans, and Calvinists. During debates on these matters between Jesuits and Domincans, the Pope ruled that both the Jesuit and Dominican position are not erroneous, and that the truth lies somewhere between them.
I agree as Jesus says your faith saves you. But we know it is not ONLY faith that saves us.
Obeying the commandments saves us. That is works.
Baptism says us, the sacraments save us.
Everything that saves us are graces given to us by God. By his cross he made it possible for us all to be saved many ways.
Can our faith save us? God tells us it can, but if it is our faith that saves us, how can we truly have faith without works.
If our faith teaches us we must be baptised, confess our sin, obey the commands how can faith be separated from works.
In my personal opinion it was the leper who came back and believed that was saved. Believing is a work. Jesus didn’t believe for the leper. The leper had free will to accept and believe in Christ and have faith, or reject Christ.
His work was to believe. Faith and works in action.
Asking whether faith or grace saves you is like asking whether the body needs food or air to live.
Grace, as we see it, is God’s gift that reestablishes the proper relationship between us and God. It comes in various ways–the ordinary way is the sacraments.
Faith is our response, living in ways that keep our souls open to that grace we have received.
If you like, when the lepers were cured, they received the grace of healing. One leper received (or responded?) to the further grace that moved him to return and give thanks. It was that act of faith that allowed the sanctifying grace of encountering Christ as Christ to bear fruit in his salvation.
What sacrament increases our faith? I am guessing the eucharist. The temptations I have in my personal life get the best of me. The only thing that has been able to help me in the rosary and I quit saying it to experiment with some other prayers. Also I read that 1 our father 3 hail marys and 1 glory be purifies. Is this so?
I don’t know. Baptism begins our journey, For me I was about 2 days old when my Mother and Papa took me to Church to have the Grace of God and forgiveness of Original sin.
The Eucharist is sure the bomb thats for sure. One on One with God and having him truly enter into your body with his. Its a grace that gets stronger with time I think.
Confession is a hard one to beat, because it frees you from sin and keeps you closer to God.
I never heard anything purifying you from sin but repenting and confessing your sins, You got me there. I have never heard Catholic teaching of prayers purifying you. Could you show me some reference.
I personally have never found anything better then the rosary. Novena’s are wonderful.
Sometimes for my sins and temptations I like to go to St Jude, He is for the hopeless ya know:p
St Michael is great it guards us from the devil who is the master of temptation. Try him some time. I think you will find great confort.
But the Blessed Mother is for me the greatest of ALL TIMES!!
[quote=rinnie;11358124. . .
]show me some reference
I personally have never found anything better then the rosary. Novenas are wonderful.
I’d look in the Catechism–Prayer starts at CCC 2558 and runs through 2765. Note especially 2565, 2577, 2613, 2631, and 2838-45. (The Our Father is covered in 2759-2765).