Faith or Works...?

Ephesians 2:8
Romans 4:5
Romans 9:30
John 5:24
Galatians 2:16
Galatians 3:11–14

The above verses tell me it is faith. The only scripture I’ve seen that promotes in any way works with faith is James.

Can someone explain?

It is both. True faith in Jesus Christ our savior involves believing what he taught and doing the *works *he commanded us to.

By Faith or Works, I mean faith or faith and works. Messed the title up. :o


All you did was make a statement that I am honestly not going to blindly receive since I am requiring more evidence. I’m not going to jump a bridge if someone tells me I live and get candy and ice cream. :stuck_out_tongue:

I didn’t make a good point? That true Faith involves doing the works Jesus told us too?

If Jesus told you to jump off the bridge, and you got immortality you wouldn’t? :wink:

God bless!

I am pretty sure the official stance is that we are saved by faith but since “faith without works is dead” if we don’t live it out it’s not real faith.

Correct me if I am wrong please.

Indeed. That’s been my understanding.

But, what about the verses? How should we be interpreting them?

Adding to Ephesians 2:8, verse 9 also seems to contradict faith with works. :confused:

Maybe look at it this way. The verses are correct, that faith saves us. However, do you really have faith, if you walk by a starving child and do not give them food or money? Do you really have faith in Jesus if you do not try to stop murder? Do you really have faith in Jesus if you don’t try to spread His gospel? Do you really have faith in Jesus if you don’t do these good works?

The verse from Ephesians says it’s not from works at all. :shrug:

Tristan, have you looked at the tracts here on CA?

Context, context, context. The ‘works’ in Ephesians were works under the Jewish Law. Note how St. Paul speaks of himself as being as ‘entitled’ by works as any other Jew, being circumcised on the 8th day, and so zealous for the JEWISH faith that he persecuted the Christians. Christians are not under the Jewish Covenant law (which is why Gentiles were not required to observe Jewish rituals such as circumcision), and so those ‘works’ would not justify.

Remember, when Jesus speaks of the judgment of the 'sheep and the goats", He does not say, “You confessed me with your mouth” or “You had faith in me.” He says, “I was hungry and you FED me”, “I was thirsty and you gave me drink”. Those are works but they are as it were living faith or faith in action. It is the faith that justifies but without the works the faith is dead. It’s as much a mockery as the Pharisees who claimed they ‘honored their mother and father’ but refused to provide for them in their old age by giving their money in a huge parade of ‘honoring God’ instead. Kind of like the “God alone” idea carried to extremes.

With Christ’s sacrifice for us, He shows us how the Jewish law ‘foreshadowed’ Him and His work. Obviously without Christ, no ‘work’ in and of itself was enough to ‘justify’ a person. . .but equally obviously, since works were praised in so far as they were done for God, they weren’t going to be jettisoned. We ‘cooperate’ with Christ; we don’t just sit back and blithely assume that ‘He saved me, all I have to do is at most refrain from doing something bad’. That attitude is like that of the servant who buried his talent. He didn’t deprive his master of the talent–but the master required MORE than just having his talent handed back to him, didn’t he? The more is the works. . .but the servants got the talents FROM the master to start with.

As somebody else said, it is in the context. That is one of the main problems with the way protestants love to pick out tiny quotes to justify entire doctrines.

Check out these:
Mt 16:27
Mt 25:34-36
Heb 6:10
Col 3:23-24
1 Cor 15:58
Rev 2:2
James 2

Yeah. They don’t answer many of my specific questions or give many Bible quotes. In fact, they give more quotes from men. :ehh:

You might also find this helpful:

They completely ignored Ephesians 2:9 :confused:

Here you go sir. It explains it far better than I could, so I will just give you the link rather than trying:

Faith or works…?

Actually, it’s faith AND works. Breaking them up is a simplistic Evangelical attempt at justififying Christianity outside of His Church. Faith without works is dead. If faith alone guaranteed salvation then why did Christ teach us how to live in His ways - doing His works?

It’s just not as simple as making a testament - that’s what the Pharisees did. You have to live it. Put your words into action. That’s the Christian message. The Way, the Truth, the Life.

Here’s a beautiful prayer:

“Jesus Master, your life traces the way for me; your teaching guides my steps; your grace sustains and supports me in my walk toward heaven. You are the perfect Master who gives the example and who teaches and strengthens the disciple to follow you. Jesus, you have the words of eternal life. Grant that I may learn you wisdom and knowledge so that following the way of your Gospel, I may attain salvation. If it be according to your holy will, grant me the graces I ask you you now…”

We are saved by faith working through love for God and love for neighbour. The rejection of salvation by works that St. Paul and the Church teaching is because we are not saved by them alone, believing that God must reward us for our ‘good deeds’. The good deeds that we do, are a result of God’s grace. If God did not supply His grace, our free will would be ‘captive’, but as He supplies it, our wills are then liberated to choose freely either good or evil. We can accept the grace or refuse it.

Protestants regularly misinterpret faith and works, as they often see it as contradictory. It’s not.

Our Lord said ‘take up your cross daily and follow me’. We take up our crosses, by enduring suffering BECAUSE OF our faith. Faith, initated by God, is the source of authentic good works.

Paul tells the Ephesians they are saved by grace through faith and not by works, “so that no one can boast” (Ephesians 2:8-9). But notice how Paul says in the very next verse that we are " . . . created in Christ Jesus for good works" (v.10). These are good works done in the system of grace. In the system of law, we seek to please ourselves, and in the system of grace, we seek to please God.

Hope this helps. :tiphat:

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