Fallen Angels and the Arts/Sciences?

Does anyone know why the Book of Enoch did not make it into the canon?

Also, it seems that, at least in the passages just cited, making of metal of any kind is not mentioned at all. Was I wrong to state that metallurgy, taught by the angels with a view to man making weapons out of it, is in this Book?

What these fallen agnesl did teach women seems to be things connected with arts already deemed evil such as sorcery, though, what, precisely, is this root-cutting?

Misty, now you’re moving the goal posts, by now writing that you are “just making proposals to be responded to” and are “trying to find a way to prove that these things came about by man’s knowledge alone…”

You can call what you write “proposals” or “premises” or whatever, but the end result is the same: The Church doesn’t accept them; doesn’t require believers to adhere to them; and if you want others to think they’re accurate, it’s up to you to demonstrate that they are accurate. Everyone here is saying, “they’re inaccurate.”

To the extent you are “trying to disprove the assertions in Enoch,” it’s not even clear what “assertions” you are referring to, or that anyone believes them to be factually or theologically or historically accurate. If you want to prove it, fine, go ahead and try.

Root-cutting is essentially pharmacology, use of plant based chemicals to heal…Ive heard one reason God did not want man to learn this art, was he desired people to come to him/ pray, for any healing they may need, and pharmacology is basically another way of shutting God out of our lives, and/or finding another way to do things so we dont need God.

Thought I’d post this from Wikipedia about Book of Enoch, so people can see what we are talking about:
This results in the creation of the Nephilim (Genesis) or Anakim/Anak (Giants) as they are described in the book:

And they became pregnant, and they bare great giants, whose height was three hundred ells: Who consumed all the acquisitions of men. And when men could no longer sustain them, the giants turned against them and devoured mankind. And they began to sin against birds, and beasts, and reptiles, and fish, and to devour one another’s flesh, and drink the blood.

It also discusses the teaching of humans by the fallen angels, chiefly Azâzêl:

And Azâzêl taught men to make swords, and knives, and shields, and breastplates, and made known to them the metals of the earth and the art of working them, and bracelets, and ornaments, and the use of antimony, and the beautifying of the eyelids, and all kinds of costly stones, and all colouring tinctures. And there arose much godlessness, and they committed fornication, and they were led astray, and became corrupt in all their ways. Semjâzâ taught enchantments, and root-cuttings, Armârôs the resolving of enchantments, Barâqîjâl, taught astrology, Kôkabêl the constellations, Ezêqêêl the knowledge of the clouds, Araqiêl the signs of the earth, Shamsiêl the signs of the sun, and Sariêl the course of the moon.

Michael, Uriel, Raphael, and Gabriel appeal to God to judge the inhabitants of the world and the fallen angels. Uriel is then sent by God to tell Noah of the coming cataclysm and what he needs to do.

Then said the Most High, the Holy and Great One spoke, and sent Uriel to the son of Lamech, and said to him: Go to Noah and tell him in my name “Hide thyself!” and reveal to him the end that is approaching: that the whole earth will be destroyed, and a deluge is about to come upon the whole earth, and will destroy all that is on it. And now instruct him that he may escape and his seed may be preserved for all the generations of the world.

God commands Raphael to imprison Azâzêl:

the Lord said to Raphael: “Bind Azâzêl hand and foot, and cast him into the darkness: and make an opening in the desert, which is in Dûdâêl (God’s Kettle/Crucible/Cauldron), and cast him therein. And place upon him rough and jagged rocks, and cover him with darkness, and let him abide there for ever, and cover his face that he may not see light. And on the day of the great judgement he shall be cast into the fire. And heal the earth which the angels have corrupted, and proclaim the healing of the earth, that they may heal the plague, and that all the children of men may not perish through all the secret things that the Watchers have disclosed and have taught their sons. And the whole earth has been corrupted through the works that were taught by Azâzêl: to him ascribe all sin.”

God gave Gabriel instructions concerning the Nephilim and the imprisonment of the fallen angels:

And to Gabriel said the Lord: “Proceed against the biters and the reprobates, and against the children of fornication: and destroy [the children of fornication and] the children of the Watchers from amongst men [and cause them to go forth]: send them one against the other that they may destroy each other in battle …”

The Lord commands Michael to bind the fallen angels.

And the Lord said unto Michael: “Go, bind Semjâzâ and his associates who have united themselves with women so as to have defiled themselves with them in all their uncleanness. 12. And when their sons have slain one another, and they have seen the destruction of their beloved ones, bind them fast for seventy generations in the valleys of the earth, till the day of their judgement and of their consummation, till the judgement that is for ever and ever is consummated. 13. In those days they shall be led off to the abyss of fire: (and) to the torment and the prison in which they shall be confined for ever. And whosoever shall be condemned and destroyed will from thenceforth be bound together with them to the end of all generations. …”

This is NOT Catholic teaching. There is no such teaching against medicine or healing.

All of this is completely antithetical to Catholic teaching. The book of Enoch is apocryphal.

The problem is, it isn’t all opposed to Catholic teaching. The fallen angels and the flood are part of Catholic teaching. Jude mentions Book of Enoch.

"The antediluvian patriarch Enoch according to Genesis “walked with God and was seen no more, because God took him”. This walking with God was naturally understood to refer to special revelations made to the patriarch, and this, together with the mystery surrounding his departure from the world, made Enoch’s name an apt one for the purposes of apocalyptic writers. In consequence there arose a literature attributed to him.

It influenced not only later Jewish apocrypha, but has left its imprint on the New Testament and the works of the early Fathers. The canonical Epistle of St. Jude, in verses 14, 15, explicitly quotes from the Book of Enoch; the citation is found in the Ethiopic version in verses 9 and 4 of the first chapter. There are probable traces of the Enoch literature in other portions of the New Testament."

The above posts are, indeed, problematic, especially if there are potential references in books of the NT.

Enoch is problematic because it seems to imply that we had no business knowing the arts, that they were “hidden” from us. However, it is problematic that no-where in the canon does God seem to have a problem with us knowing these arts and, indeed, even encourages our use of them. Is there anywhere in canonical Scripture or Catholic tradition that explicitly states that man himself learned these arts? Is the apparent contradiction between canonical texts and this one perhaps the (main?) reason Enoch was not canonized?

Would anyone who knows be willing to give me (and others here) a run-down of what we know of the history of the Book of Enoch (author, intent, etc.)? Did Jews at all accept it as Scripture? If so, how did they deal with knowing the arts, as they seemed full well to be accepting of the use of them? After all, you would think that if they held that fallen angels taught them to us, and they were supposed to be hidden, Jews would’ve rejected all of them in their daily practice, aside from maybe the use of arms for the purpose of protecting themselves against non-Jewish foes.

Is there are more detailed Catholic stance on Enoch (besides the fact simply that it’s “non-canonical”)?

If there is even the possibility that fallen angels taught us these arts, and even if we are permitted to use them (presumably to better our lives?), how can we give thanks to God for them, if He may not originally have approved of them? Is there any iron-clad, infallible Catholic teaching on our use of the arts ando/or its origin? What about simply authoritative teaching? Any opinions on here about Enoch or about the arts and man and why would should/should not accept any or all of the traditions laid down in Enoch?

I just thought of another interesting point in regard to this discussion…

In Genesis, certain men are said to have been the “father of” different things, such as music. Interestingly, no mention of any divine assistance, good or bad, is mentioned. If the angelic influence was a strong part of the tradition at the time of the writing of Genesis, one would’ve expected such to be mentioned in the Genesis text. Actually, the silence on this matter is, indeed, rather deafening, and, if there was some tradition of fallen angels assisting man in their artistic endeavors, this silence could serve to show that the author(s?) of Genesis was, in fact, explicitly rejecting such a tradition. Of course, one could also argue that the Genesis accounts may have been summaries and that Jews would still have been familiar with such a tradition. After all, we don’t get a whole lot of detail of how man became so incredibly sinful in Genesis but we do seemingly have more in sources like Enoch.

Again, anyone know the reasons(s) why Enoch didn’t make it into the canon? Have Jews ever accepted it? Anyone know their opinion on it historically? Today?

Still further, was this text perhaps influenced by pagan thought about “the gods”, contrary to the will of their Zeus, giving men such things as fire and they tried to “syncretize” (iof that’s the proper word) these beliefs to their own, belieiving them to have some merit?

Forgot also to ask whether there is any explicit approval by God in the canon of any or all of the arts mentioned in Enoch? (I presume that the mere mention of them does not count as explicit approval since concubinage was also mentioned in the Bible without comment and is not acceptable sexual practice today.)

Are we perhaps “what-if”-ing ourselves to death regarding the possibility that fallen angels revealed these things to us? Even if there’s no ironclad Scripture/Church teaching excluding the possibility, is there some way we can say that we are “what-if”-ing unnecessarily? Is there any argument unquestionably to support this assertion?

The main thing I can tell you is that Genesis was written much earlier than Book of Enoch. Book of Enoch was written 200 BC, whereas at the earliest, Genesis was written about 580 BC, though most people believe it was written at least 1000 BC. Therefore, Book of Enoch is expanding on the story of Genesis, very imaginatively.

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