Fallen heavenly angels theories


#1

Having recently been banned at Planet Discuss, I have subsequently been kindly invited to Post here by a Daniel Marsh.

He asked me to be ‘up front’ as to my beliefs. -

Well I actually belong to no organisation at all.

Having said that the closest belief system that I embrace is called the Christadelphians / C.A’s for short.

I have actually run Bible Classes from my Home for a number of years. Having recently retired and moved to the Countryside I am on the verge of starting again in the near future as a number in this small community have shown great interest in what I have to say and are also most dissolusioned with Orthodoxy in all of its various manifestations.

I do not agree 100% with the Christadelphiams but as I said they are about the closest to what I do believe.

In essence: No Devil / Satan or any fallen heavenly angel being(s)
No literal demons.
No personal Immortal Soul that goes to Heaven or Hell.
Hell is not the dweling place of wicked supernatuarl beings.
Jesus is not God
No Trinity.

Yes I am challenging Orthodoxy and Mainstream Christianity but my purpose is not to ‘destroy’ people’s beliefs but rather (God wiling?) to ‘enhance them’ to a factual and realistic understanding instead of the ‘misguided’ teachings the various Churches have inflicted on their various dwindling flocks for far too long.

Therefore also, if any one is willing to discuss these issues with me if possible I would far prefer a One on One otherwise it becomes far too time consuming ‘repeating and duplicating’ because lets face it, I would be one(1) against many and so it would be simple to ‘overwhelm’ me with numerous Posts attacking me.

Therefore it would be great to be allowed to commence a one on one discussion with some one who is prepared to discuss all these Topics with me.

To start the ‘ball rolling’ and please whomsoever challenges me, be prepared for the ‘Long-Haul’ and not a rushed discussion. It takes time to correct errors that have been ‘previously long-held’.

So would some one please commence by presenting to me their alleged evidence to support their belief in their Satan / Devil Fallen heavenly angel being(s)?

I invariably use the Standard King James Bible (unless otherwise stated) and I also refer to many others including the EMPHATIC Diaglott by Dr. J.J. Griesbach and Benjamim Wilson.

I would appreciate accurate and specific references being given at all times by my detractor and of course by myself, in order to minimise misunderstandings or misquotes etc.

In God’s Love always

Thanks you all


#2

[quote=composer]I do not agree 100% with the Christadelphiams but as I said they are about the closest to what I do believe.

In essence: No Devil / Satan or any fallen heavenly angel being(s)
No literal demons.
No personal Immortal Soul that goes to Heaven or Hell.
Hell is not the dweling place of wicked supernatuarl beings.
Jesus is not God
No Trinity.
all
[/quote]

so Jesus lied about all this? my that must be some bible you are using. evidently it is missing Matthew 25 as well as other key sections, like where Jesus tells those who fail to feed the hungry etc. that they will be banished to the eternal fire prepared for Satan and his demons.


#3

Hey puzzleannie, give this guy the benefit of the doubt and talk with him seriously.

In essence: No Devil / Satan or any fallen heavenly angel being(s)
No literal demons.
No personal Immortal Soul that goes to Heaven or Hell.
Hell is not the dweling place of wicked supernatuarl beings.
Jesus is not God
No Trinity.

I have spoken with Catholic nuns who have said they don’t believe in most of these things. :frowning:

composer, I don’t know if I am the right person on this Forum to address these issues with you, and I am off to work in a few minutes, but I hope you get someone who will reply to you, as it instructs us in 1 Peter 3:15, with gentleness and respect.


#4

Ok, I seem to have plenty of time on my hands these days, so I’ll bite.

[quote=composer]So would some one please commence by presenting to me their alleged evidence to support their belief in their Satan / Devil Fallen heavenly angel being(s)?
[/quote]

“Get the ball rolling”, eh? Okay…

The following scripture passages are courtesy of King Jimmy, as per your request:

Job 1:6-7: “Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them. And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Than Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.”

1 Chronicles 20:1-2, “And Satan stood up against Israel and provoked David to number Israel. And David said to Joab and to the rulers of the people, Go, number Israel from Beersheba even to Dan; and bring the number of them to me, that I may know it.”

St. Matthew 4:1-11, “Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit, into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward a hungered. And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou by the Son of God, command these stones to be made break. But he answered, and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple. And said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down; for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee; and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone. Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and showeth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; And said unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me. Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan; for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. Then the devil leaveth him, and behold, angels came and ministered unto him.”

(continued…)


#5

Psalm 109:6“Set thou a wicked man over him; and let Satan stand at his right hand.”

Zechariah 3:1-2“And he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him. And the Lord said unto Satan, The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?” St. Matthew 12:22-28“Then was brought unto him one possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb; and he healed him, insomuch that the blind and dumb both spake and saw. And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the Son of David? But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils. And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand: And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand? And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? Therefore they shall be your judges. But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.”

[/font]St. Matthew 16:23“But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan; thou art an offense unto me; for thou savorest not the things that be of God, but those that be of man.”

St. Mark 1:13 --* “And he was there in the wilderness forty days tempted of Satan; and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him.”*

St. Mark 3:23-36 --* “And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan?”*

*St. Mark 4:15“And these are they by the wayside, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.”

St. Mark 8:33“But when he had turned about and looked on his disciples, he rebuked Peter, saying, Get thee behind me, Satan; for thou savorest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men.”

St. Luke 4:8“And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan; for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.”

St. Luke 10:18“And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightening fall from heaven.”

St. Luke 11:18“If Satan also be divided against himself, how shall his kingdom stand? Because ye say that I cast out devils through Beelzebub.”

(continued…)*


#6

St. Luke 13:16“And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the Sabbath day?”

St. Luke 22:3“Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.”

St. Luke 22:31“And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold Satan, hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat; But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not; and when thou art converted, strengthen they brethren.”

St. John 13:27“And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.”

The Acts 5:3“But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?”

The Acts 26:18“To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.”

Romans 16:20“And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.”

1 Corinthians 5:5 – “To deliver such a one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.”

1 Corinthians 7:5“Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.”

2 Corinthians 2:11“Lest Satan should get an advantage of us; for we are not ignorant of his devises.”

2 Corinthians 12:7“And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.”

(continued…)


#7

1 Thessalonians 2:18“Wherefore we would have come unto you, even I Paul, once and again; but Satan hindered us.”

2 Thessalonians 2:9“Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders.”

1 Timothy 1:20“Of whom is Hymeneus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.”

1 Timothy 5:15“For some are already turned aside after Satan.”

The Revelation 2:9“I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.”

The Revelation 2:24“But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depth of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.”

The Revelation 3:9“Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.” The Revelation 12:7-9“And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels. And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.”

The Revelation 20:7 --* “And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison.”*

So that ought to get us started. Quite a number of quotes straight from the Bible suggesting that Satan / The Devil is a real being, rather than some abstract personification of evil.


#8

Dr. Colussus quotes: -

Job 1:6-7: “Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them. And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Than Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.” (KJV)

1 Chronicles 20:1-2, “And Satan stood up against Israel and provoked David to number Israel. And David said to Joab and to the rulers of the people, Go, number Israel from Beersheba even to Dan; and bring the number of them to me, that I may know it.” (KJV)

Composer responds: Ok thank you but may I ask yoou to please keep the Posts to short ones as long ones are very cumbersome.

I shall deal with ALL matters but not all at once.

Therefore for now I have selected the first two of your quotes,

May I say to commence, that really you are not actually providing a single shred of ‘evidence’ that your fallen heavenly angel beings literally exist.

All you are doing is ‘inferring’ that this alleged supernatural being exists because the Text says ‘Satan’ or one of its alleged derivations.

What I would have expected is some actual evidence to support your cause, not just ‘speculation’ that this transliterated Hebrew Word Satan - meaning simply an ADVERSARY / ENEMY / OPPOSER either Male or Female or even Neuter Gender is your fallen heavenly angel being, but you have not provided that evidence whatsoever?

Moving along: -

You quote:

Job 1:6-7: “Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them. And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Than Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.” (KJV)

My initial response:
What makes you think that this ‘satan’ is not a human? (Scriptures / evodence?)
What makes you think that God (If you think that Lord = God)would have a conversation with a wicked fallen heavenly angel being? (Scriptures / evidence?)
Do you not think it strange that your alleged 'fallen heavenly angel being was only ‘walking’ up and down on the earth?

The facts are: - Job never attributed his afflictions to a rebel angel. His declaration was simply: “The hand of God hath touched me”. (Job 19:21 cf. 2:10). Even Job’s brethren, sisters and acquaintances acknowledged that the evil was brought upon Job by the LORD: “they bemoaned him, and comforted him over all the evil that the LORD had brought upon him.” (Job 42:11). (Extract from WRESTED SCRIPTURES by Ron Abel)

So please provide your evidence to demonstrae that this was your wicked satan the fallen heavenly angel being? (Scriptures etc. of course?)

Your second quote:

1 Chronicles 20:1-2, “And Satan stood up against Israel and provoked David to number Israel. And David said to Joab and to the rulers of the people, Go, number Israel from Beersheba even to Dan; and bring the number of them to me, that I may know it.” (KJV)

My initial response: There is a parallel passage to this, another account of the same incident recorded in 2 Samuel 24:1

This reads “And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah”. So that the satan that provoked Israel in 1 Chronicles is called the LORD in 2 Samuel.

Satan = LORD

So you appear to be accusing God i.e. the LORD of being this Satan the fallen heavenly angel being?

Can you start to see now just how silly it is to ‘assume’ that Satan means ‘an evil fallen heavenly angel being?’

It never legitrimately does!

Please remember I only want to ‘share’ the wonderful knowledge I have found with others, never to degrade them but only to ‘uplift’ them to a significantly greater and more accurate Scriptural understanding.


#9

[quote=composer]Dr. Colussus quotes: -

Job 1:6-7: “Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them. And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Than Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.” (KJV)

1 Chronicles 20:1-2, “And Satan stood up against Israel and provoked David to number Israel. And David said to Joab and to the rulers of the people, Go, number Israel from Beersheba even to Dan; and bring the number of them to me, that I may know it.” (KJV)

Composer responds: Ok thank you but may I ask you to please keep the Posts to short ones as long ones are very cumbersome.

I shall deal with ALL matters but not all at once.

Therefore for now I have selected the first two of your quotes,

May I say to commence, that really you are not actually providing a single shred of ‘evidence’ that your fallen heavenly angel beings literally exist.

All you are doing is ‘inferring’ that this alleged supernatural being exists because the Text says ‘Satan’ or one of its alleged derivations.

What I would have expected is some actual evidence to support your cause, not just ‘speculation’ that this transliterated Hebrew Word Satan - meaning simply an ADVERSARY / ENEMY / OPPOSER either Male or Female or even Neuter Gender is your fallen heavenly angel being, but you have not provided that evidence whatsoever?

Moving along: -

You quote:

Job 1:6-7: “Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them. And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Than Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.” (KJV)

My initial response:
What makes you think that this ‘satan’ is not a human? (Scriptures / evodence?)
What makes you think that God (If you think that Lord = God)would have a conversation with a wicked fallen heavenly angel being? (Scriptures / evidence?)
Do you not think it strange that your alleged 'fallen heavenly angel being was only ‘walking’ up and down on the earth?

The facts are: - Job never attributed his afflictions to a rebel angel. His declaration was simply: “The hand of God hath touched me”. (Job 19:21 cf. 2:10). Even Job’s brethren, sisters and acquaintances acknowledged that the evil was brought upon Job by the LORD: “they bemoaned him, and comforted him over all the evil that the LORD had brought upon him.” (Job 42:11). (Extract from WRESTED SCRIPTURES by Ron Abel)

So please provide your evidence to demonstrae that this was your wicked satan the fallen heavenly angel being? (Scriptures etc. of course?)

Your second quote:

1 Chronicles 20:1-2, “And Satan stood up against Israel and provoked David to number Israel. And David said to Joab and to the rulers of the people, Go, number Israel from Beersheba even to Dan; and bring the number of them to me, that I may know it.” (KJV)

My initial response: There is a parallel passage to this, another account of the same incident recorded in 2 Samuel 24:1

This reads “And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah”.

So that the satan that provoked Israel in 1 Chronicles is called the LORD in 2 Samuel.

Satan = LORD?

So you appear to be accusing God i.e. the LORD of being this Satan the fallen heavenly angel being?

Can you start to see now just how silly it is to ‘assume’ that Satan means ‘an evil fallen heavenly angel being?’

It never legitrimately does!

Please remember I only want to ‘share’ the wonderful knowledge I have found with others, never to degrade them but only to ‘uplift’ them to a significantly greater and more accurate Scriptural understanding.
[/quote]


#10

1 Chronicles 21:1-2 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.
2 And David said to Joab and to the rulers of the people, Go, number Israel from Beersheba even to Dan; and bring the number of them to me, that I may know it.

2 Samuel 24:1-2 1 And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah. 2 For the king said to Joab the captain of the host, which was with him, Go now through all the tribes of Israel, from Dan even to Beersheba, and number ye the people, that I may know the number of the people.

Well, well, well, that is troubling indeed since I have looked at both set of verses. Lordy, Lordy he is right. :eek:

I guess we would have to argue that the Lord was utilizing Satan in this instance. That Satan was doing the lords work?


#11

I think that this is true in the Old Testament only and it has to do with the way the people of the OT saw God (angry, the punisher). With the relationship to God totally redefined in the NT through Jesus you will NOT see this kind of confusion.

The reason why all those quotes were used was because you are using the Bible at all. Now, I guess it matters a whole lot if you consider the Bible the inspired Word of God. Because if you do, it’s really hard to get around the fact that heaven, hell, angels, and demons are all realities to Jesus and the Apostles. Saying something else may make people “feel” better, but that cannot be based on what the Bible teaches.

BTW, what is your purpose for teaching this? :confused:


#12

Job 4
15Then **a spirit ** passed before my face; the hair of my flesh stood up: 16It stood still, but I could not discern the form thereof: an image was before mine eyes, there was silence, and I heard a voice, saying, 17Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker? 18Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly

:
Behold, he puts no trust in his servants. He charges his angels with error. (WEB)


#13

[quote=composer]What I would have expected is some actual evidence to support your cause, not just ‘speculation’ that this transliterated Hebrew Word Satan - meaning simply an ADVERSARY / ENEMY / OPPOSER either Male or Female or even Neuter Gender is your fallen heavenly angel being, but you have not provided that evidence whatsoever?
[/quote]

The purpose of the numerous quotes I provided was to establish that we are talking about a real being. No, it does not prove by itself conclusively that Satan is a fallen angel, but of course this debate will take some time, as you said.

Moving along: -

You quote:

Job 1:6-7: “Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them. And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Than Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.” (KJV)

My initial response:
What makes you think that this ‘satan’ is not a human? (Scriptures / evodence?)

Further reading of Job shows that Satan has the power to do the following:

Job 2:6-7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life. So went Satan forth from the presence of the LORD, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown.

Do you or any other human being you know have that ability?

What makes you think that God (If you think that Lord = God)would have a conversation with a wicked fallen heavenly angel being? (Scriptures / evidence?)

And what evidence do you have that He would not?

Do you not think it strange that your alleged 'fallen heavenly angel being was only ‘walking’ up and down on the earth?

Here we run into a problem using only one translation of the Bible. Consider that older tranlsations, such as the Latin Vulgate of St. Jerome, use the word “perambulavi”, which has an alternate meaning of “passed through” or “traversed”. The author’s intent was to convey the idea that Satan had been patrolling the earth. The book of Genesis claims that God “walked” through the Garden of Eden.

The facts are: - Job never attributed his afflictions to a rebel angel. His declaration was simply: “The hand of God hath touched me”. (Job 19:21 cf. 2:10). Even Job’s brethren, sisters and acquaintances acknowledged that the evil was brought upon Job by the LORD: “they bemoaned him, and comforted him over all the evil that the LORD had brought upon him.” (Job 42:11). (Extract from WRESTED SCRIPTURES by Ron Abel)

Job was a farmer, not a scribe. Why should we expect him to have complete understanding of what was going on?

So please provide your evidence to demonstrae that this was your wicked satan the fallen heavenly angel being? (Scriptures etc. of course?)

The fact that he is called Satan, the same Satan whom John referred to in Revelation:

The Revelation 12:8-9“And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.”


#14

Your second quote:

1 Chronicles 20:1-2, “And Satan stood up against Israel and provoked David to number Israel. And David said to Joab and to the rulers of the people, Go, number Israel from Beersheba even to Dan; and bring the number of them to me, that I may know it.” (KJV)

My initial response: There is a parallel passage to this, another account of the same incident recorded in 2 Samuel 24:1

This reads “And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah”. So that the satan that provoked Israel in 1 Chronicles is called the LORD in 2 Samuel.

Satan = LORD

So you appear to be accusing God i.e. the LORD of being this Satan the fallen heavenly angel being?

Nonsense. We just finished looking at the book of Job, where it is established that Satan has no power over anyone on Earth that is not allowed him by the Lord. Therefore, while 1 Samuel says it was the Lord who did it (which is accurate because He would have had to allow Satan to act), 1 Chronicles gives us more details, namely, that Satan was allowed by God to tempt David.


#15

Composer, did God create evil beings? If not what were they before they fell from grace? Do you believe that Satan is only a man? If you do not believe Satan is a fallen angel, then how can he look like an angel?


#16

[quote=puzzleannie]so Jesus lied about all this? my that must be some bible you are using. evidently it is missing Matthew 25 as well as other key sections, like where Jesus tells those who fail to feed the hungry etc. that they will be banished to the eternal fire prepared for Satan and his demons.
[/quote]

Much of Christ’s ministry was the casting out of demons. If you discount the presence of demons, you are suggesting Christ was a lunatic. That being the case, what you are espousing has less to do with Christianity than some new form of paganism, and I don’t catch its relevance to the Forums.


#17

I would like to get Composer’s view on what HE thinks we Christians believe the Devil and evil spirits are. Maybe that way we can get more of an understanding on how to answer to his objections.


#18

2 Samuel 24

1 Again the anger of the LORD was aroused against Israel, and He moved David against them to say, “Go, number Israel and Judah.”

1 Chronicles 21

1 **Now ** Satan stood up against Israel, and moved David to number Israel.

There is a transition in I Chron 21

First God allowed it, Satan enticed, David sinned.

The claim that Satan = God is weird.


#19

[quote=Pryority7]I would like to get Composer’s view on what HE thinks we Christians believe the Devil and evil spirits are. Maybe that way we can get more of an understanding on how to answer to his objections.
[/quote]

Good point

I like him to say where he thinks Satan, devils, demons, spirits, angels or whatever came from.


#20

Due to Thread Text character limitations, sorry this Post had to be broken into two (2) parts.
Part 1.
To Dr. Colossus: Now I demonstrated the folly of just calling your ‘satan’ a fallen heavenly angel being.

You offered absolutely no evidence, not a scrap that your alleged ‘fallen heavenly angel being exists’.

You still haven’t except as I said use the Hebrew Term ‘Satan’ in the Text as your at best ‘implied argument’.

So so far you have absolutely not a scrap of legitimate evidence to support your claims.

I showed that Satan = the LORD in my comparison between 1 Chron. 20:1-2 and 2 Samuel 24:1 -

which reads "And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them.

Now the best you can ‘guess at’ is that God must have authorised your imaginary satan the fallen angel being?

If you notice it says the LORD . . . moved David.

Perhaps you could point out where it says, the LORD authorised your satan the RCC fallen heavenly angel being?

You can of course like myself use whatever translation you like at any time by the way!

Dr. Colossus wrote: The fact that he is called Satan, the same Satan whom John referred to in Revelation:

The Revelation 12:8-9 – “And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.”



DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.