Family leaves church amid altar girls debate...


#1

This makes me sad:

By Michelle Boorstein, Updated: Saturday, November 19, 5:10 PM*

M*** had just begun at Corpus Christi Catholic Church when Jennifer Zickel, a Sunday school teacher, glanced at the church bulletin and saw something that made her sick to her stomach.

Tucked in with announcements about a new electronic donation system and a church dinner at Margarita’s Mexican restaurant was news that Zickel, the mother of two girls, had been dreading: Corpus Christi would no longer train girls to be altar servers.

As our religion Web site celebrates its fifth anniversary, a look back at some stunning images of faith in the past five years.

Zickel burst into tears and ran to the bathroom.

“I knew right then that our family couldn’t stay at this church anymore,” Zickel said, her voice breaking. “I’m a mama bear, and they’re going after my girls.”…

see here for rest of story:

washingtonpost.com/local/protests-of-va-parishs-move-away-from-altar-girls-reflects-wider-catholic-debate/2011/11/17/gIQAnbRLcN_story.html


#2

It seems as though worshipping God has to be done her way…not the way of the Church she belongs to. :shrug:


#3

I don’t blame her for going to another parish that welcomes altar girls. I know many people who would do the same thing.


#4

I don’t see a problem with girls serving at mass. There is absolutely no reason not to allow them to serve. In the end, the priests have the right to make the rules and the rest should follow or find a different church, but I disagree with the priest.


#5

Altar boys have always been male because it was a means to inspire priestly vocations in boys. I really believe we should stick with altar boys, and stop with this modern innovation of altar girls.


#6

I’m sure there will always be a parish available that allows girl altar servers, as well as parishes who only use boys.


#7

[quote="Not_Sure, post:5, topic:263409"]
Altar boys have always been male because it was a means to inspire priestly vocations in boys. I really believe we should stick with altar boys, and stop with this modern innovation of altar girls.

[/quote]

How does allowing girls to serve at mass affect the inspiration of priestly vocations in males? Females played a huge part in baptism in the early church, and I don't think that there is a valid reason to limit them now. That is just my opinion though.


#8

I think the idea is to more widely expose boys to the calling of becoming a priest. By having more boys participating as altar servers you increase their exposure to the details of the Mass and the incredible calling of the priests.

I think that when priests are becoming harder and harder to find...keeping males actively assisting at Mass is important. I have no problem with women as lectors.


#9

[quote="adoglover1956, post:8, topic:263409"]
I think the idea is to more widely expose boys to the calling of becoming a priest. By having more boys participating as altar servers you increase their exposure to the details of the Mass and the incredible calling of the priests.

I think that when priests are becoming harder and harder to find...keeping males actively assisting at Mass is important. I have no problem with women as lectors.

[/quote]

We could do what they did in the early churches: forced ordination!:D

I am only kidding, of course.


#10

[quote="karebear92, post:9, topic:263409"]
We could do what they did in the early churches: forced ordination!:D

I am only kidding, of course.

[/quote]

And...make penance last for a year or so!! :D

(Hmmmm....that would leave me out on the steps for ages) LOL


#11

[quote="adoglover1956, post:8, topic:263409"]
I think the idea is to more widely expose boys to the calling of becoming a priest. By having more boys participating as altar servers you increase their exposure to the details of the Mass and the incredible calling of the priests.
I think that when priests are becoming harder and harder to find...keeping males actively assisting at Mass is important. I have no problem with women as lectors.

[/quote]

Why are priests becoming harder and harder to find?
Fewer men want to be priests? If so, does anyone know why?
If the number of boys wanting to be priests has severely declined in the last few decades, does anyone know if the church has investigated the reasons? Talked to boys/young men about this and asked them?
Whatever they say the reasons are for them not choosing it...seems that would be the area to focus on.

I dare say...if the number of boys wanting to be priests keeps declining...perhaps it would be wise, then, to keep the altar girls intact.

Just in case we're gonna need them soon for...the priesthood.

:D


#12

I don’t know if they have done research, but I think it makes a fair amount of sense with the increasing focus on materialism and decreasingly religious society.


#13

Mass had just begun at Corpus Christi Catholic Church when Jennifer Zickel, a Sunday school teacher, glanced at the church bulletin and saw something that made her sick to her stomach.

What was she doing looking at the bulletin after Mass had started? :shrug: Mass has started isn't that usually the single to put the bulletin down and participate in Mass. Or are only those serving on the altar are participating in Mass and that's why she has to be in a parish that has girls serve and have her girls serve (irrespective of their desire or wish to serve)?

And now she is looking for a parish that lets girls serve? What, does she call up all the parishes and ask them if girls can be altar servers. Of all the things one looks for in a parish is this really something high on people's lists?


#14

I know families who left the church because they didn't think their male child was treated fairly either. I hope priests realize how important it is to have clear directions, good training, and fair scheduling. It can cause too much pain otherwise.


#15

Altar girls are allowed by the Vatican.
John Paul II concluded that this was not a violation of Infallible Tradition.

However, prior to his time,
nearly ALL theologians would have disagreed with this.
Many were the theologians and saints over the centuries
who said that women "should be entirely denied this ministry."

I wish I had references handy, but you'll have to google the topic.

Allowing altar girls was a concession by the pope to those who
were demanding women priests but could not
--- and will NEVER in the Catholic Church --- have them.

For 1995 years, altar girls were unheard of in the Catholic Church.


#16

[quote="karebear92, post:12, topic:263409"]
I don't know if they have done research, but I think it makes a fair amount of sense with the increasing focus on materialism and decreasingly religious society.

[/quote]

If there was actually something specific about the Catholic priesthood that was turning them away...for example, the fact that priests cannot marry....if many young men cited that as the reason that they ultimately discerned away from the priesthood....do you think the church would consider making changes in that area?


#17

[quote="Jaypeeto4, post:15, topic:263409"]
Altar girls are allowed by the Vatican.
John Paul II concluded that this was not a violation of Infallible Tradition.

However, prior to his time,
nearly ALL theologians would have disagreed with this.
Many were the theologians and saints over the centuries
who said that women "should be entirely denied this ministry."

I wish I had references handy, but you'll have to google the topic.

Allowing altar girls was a concession by the pope to those who
were demanding women priests but could not
--- and will NEVER in the Catholic Church --- have them.

For 1995 years, altar girls were unheard of in the Catholic Church.

[/quote]

Alter servers were unheard of for most of that time as well!:D Deacons and presbyters generally served as altar servers, and that is not how it is today.

I will say, however, that women did much of the rituals in the early sacrament of baptism when dealing with women, so their participation in the church was present for a couple hundred years in the beginning. Obviously not as altar servers, but as I said, that didn't really exist either.


#18

[quote="DaddyGirl, post:16, topic:263409"]
If there was actually something specific about the Catholic priesthood that was turning them away...for example, the fact that priests cannot marry....if many young men cited that as the reason that they ultimately discerned away from the priesthood....do you think the church would consider making changes in that area?

[/quote]

They would probably consider it but I doubt they would change it, as it would be against modern tradition to do so. I think they may have actually discussed this recently.


#19

[quote="Rence, post:3, topic:263409"]
I don't blame her for going to another parish that welcomes altar girls. I know many people who would do the same thing.

[/quote]

How is it that we should seek our will for the Mass rather than the Churches? Should we, as Catholics, not seek to follow and to obey the Church, accepting that the Church acts as the visible body of our Lord Jesus Christ? Knowing that the individual priests must follow the will of the Church and not their own will should help with this.

[quote="karebear92, post:7, topic:263409"]
How does allowing girls to serve at mass affect the inspiration of priestly vocations in males? Females played a huge part in baptism in the early church, and I don't think that there is a valid reason to limit them now. That is just my opinion though.

[/quote]

Females seem to have played only one role in baptism in the early church: baptizing other women. Since baptism was almost always done naked it only makes sense that women would baptize women and since any person may baptize using the correct "formula" then it was perfectly acceptable.

[quote="DaddyGirl, post:11, topic:263409"]
Why are priests becoming harder and harder to find?
Fewer men want to be priests? If so, does anyone know why?
If the number of boys wanting to be priests has severely declined in the last few decades, does anyone know if the church has investigated the reasons? Talked to boys/young men about this and asked them?
Whatever they say the reasons are for them not choosing it...seems that would be the area to focus on.

I dare say...if the number of boys wanting to be priests keeps declining...perhaps it would be wise, then, to keep the altar girls intact.

Just in case we're gonna need them soon for...the priesthood.

:D

[/quote]

Seriously? This is a horrific statement even if made in jest. The joke is suggesting that a woman could act in the place of Christ? Horrific. What's next here?

Plus, why is it that the traditional parishes have no shortage of vocations to the religious life or the clergy? The FSSP seems to be doing just fine, perhaps more parishes should emulate them?

[quote="jilly4ski, post:13, topic:263409"]
What was she doing looking at the bulletin after Mass had started? :shrug: Mass has started isn't that usually the single to put the bulletin down and participate in Mass. Or are only those serving on the altar are participating in Mass and that's why she has to be in a parish that has girls serve and have her girls serve (irrespective of their desire or wish to serve)?

And now she is looking for a parish that lets girls serve? What, does she call up all the parishes and ask them if girls can be altar servers. Of all the things one looks for in a parish is this really something high on people's lists?

[/quote]

I second this. Seems like a ridiculous article and issue to me.


#20

[quote="FidesSpesCarita, post:19, topic:263409"]

Females seem to have played only one role in baptism in the early church: baptizing other women. Since baptism was almost always done naked it only makes sense that women would baptize women and since any person may baptize using the correct "formula" then it was perfectly acceptable.

[/quote]

I am aware of what they used them for and why it was allowed. I wasn't arguing for ordaining them. But as far as I know, isn't that the same thing with altar servers? Why must altar servers be male?


DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.