Fastfood Masses


#1

I discovered gold in the Latin Mass and often attend it because of its’ beautiful reverence and awesome ritual that befits the majesty of God. But when I go to the Novus Order I can’t believe how much of the mass has been “chiseled away” slowly but surely. The Novus Ordo in the early days was not at all bad. But what is happening now? For example, during Lent weekday masses, and on some Sundays, the Confiteor, the Gloria and the Creed are all omitted in many churces. (I know that during Lent you are supposed to omit the Gloria) but why the Creed? So basically the mass starts with a small opening prayer, Lord Have Mercy and then straight to the Readings. There’s no rhyme or reason for it. In the Latin Mass they say the Kyrie Eleison AND the Confiteor two times. I also accidentally found an email correspondence by priests on a certain committee discussing that they were going to work harder to encourage omission of the Confiteor and use only Eucharistic Prayer 2 more frequently. This smacks of conspiracy to me. THEY ARE TRYING TO TAKE THE MASS AWAY FROM US GRADUALLY AND IMPERCEPTIBLY. It’s like boiling the frog. You won’t realize it’s happening unless you experience the profoundness of the Latin Mass or have the good fortune to attend a very reverent Novus Ordo like on EWTN. It’s not the Latin that’s the big issue, it’s the prayers of the mass that are so beautiful that have been stripped away gradually since the 1960’s. It’s like Cain and Abel. Are they giving God their best? Read the English translation in the Latin missal and you will see how much we have lost.


#2

one thing i also found strange is that in the english translation the word grace is always omitted. (in latin mass it is said at least 10 times)


#3

I quote from my 1959 Maryknoll Missal (Tradtional Latin Mass, of course):

*The Profession of Faith, or Creed, is said on Sundays, on feasts of the first class, on feasts of Our Lord, the Blessed Virgin, natal feasts of the Apostles and Evangelists, Doctors of the Church, the Angels, and in solemn votive Masses.
*
So, yes, the Creed is occasionally omitted in the TLM.

I can’t speak to when the Creed is omitted in the new Mass, but it’s my understanding that it is only said on Sundays. I don’t believe the Confiteor is optional ever.

You have a point about translation. I compared the Latin version of Eucharistic Prayer I (The Roman Canon) to the Canon of the TLM. It is almost word for word identical. However, when I compare the English translation in my TLM Missal to that of the English translation of EP I, it is truly sad.

English can be a beautiful, majestic language. The translators of the new Mass seemed determined to disguise that beauty. I’m surprised they didn’t try to remove all the "THY"s from the Our Father. :nope:


#4

the Creed is not said on weekdays, even in the old missal it was only said on certain feasts that occurred on weekdays. the gloria was never sung in lent before either, so why bring it up now. there are 3 options for the penitential rite, the first one includes the confiteor, as for repetition of the word grace, I can’t say what you mean, but one purpose of the NO Mass was to reduce needless repetition supposedly to make the references that remained that much stronger. Surely many good reasons to praise TLM but you will have to find other ones than those you lead off with.

also criticizing the English translation is not the same as criticizing the new missal, everybody admits the translation is bad which is why they keep pushing the translators back to the drawing board, but that is not per se a valid criticism of the NO.


#5

Years ago when I attended daily Mass in Latin, the priest would have the Mass over in 20 to 25 minutes. He would read the Latin so fast that it was hard to keep up in the little book that I had with Latin and the English translation. Many came to Mass on their way to work. Mass was often at 5 or 6 AM. Some said their rosary during Mass. It’s a little easier now going to daily Mass to follow along.

Deacon Tony


#6

One has to attend a TLM for a while before one realizes that something is dreadfully wrong with the way the NO is done nowadays. I never cared for the TLM before. As a matter of fact, I wasn’t even interested in ever going back to Latin. Then when I started to attend it, my eyes were opened and I was stunned at what we have lost. There is something woefully amiss in the way the mass is. Why do we need 3 options for the pentitential rite? It’s just an excuse to omit the confiteor under the pretext of so-called variety. Open your eyes people. When you omit prayers, you lose grace. We, as a church, should be saying the Confiteor AND the Kyrie Eleison. We, as a church are not giving God our very best. I liken it to preferring eating a McDonald’s dinner to a three-course gourmet meal. Both are food, but one will make you sicker in the long run. The NO was fine years ago but the endless tampering with it today is wrong. Our church is losing grace with these shortcut masses and it doesn’t take a nanoscientist to see this.


#7

…Let alone the English translation of the Confiteor is horrible. One day you can go to an English Mass, say my fault once. But at the next Mass which is Polish or whatever language you say the words three times but of coarse adding the appropriate translation for maxima before the third fault (mea maxima culpa, which is lacking in the English translation). This on top of naming Saints by name (instead of “all the Saints” during the prayer.


#8

y’know…I love the TLM too, but the more I hear all these gripes about the NO the less I care to get into all that. The Mass is Beautiful and real where I am, and the church is packed, even though most of us are still recovering from having the area wracked by Ivan.

I was there throught the transition and I love what we have now and I sure as vitam aeternum don’t think that anyone is trying to take the Mass away from us!

Who is “they”?
Pax vobiscum,


#9

I thought everyone knew who “they” was. I guess not. “They” are the enemies of the church. The false theologians who want the “American Church” and the ecclesiastical freemasons. No, it’s not fiction, it’s fact. The proof in this is that many of the past Popes have warned us continuously about their efforts to undermine the church. You see, the key is subtely. When the church is undermined, it’s not going to be obvious or else the faithful would be alert to it. It’s subtle and gradual. I’m only referring to the subtle and gradual changes in the Mass, changes that do not add anything to the mass. It’s not about TLM vs. NO. As I said, the NO was fine but it’s still being tampered with and one has to wonder why?

Of course, it’s not pleasant to talk about this. Everyone naturally wants a church that is perfect, beautiful and immutable - which in reality it is. But we, the body of Christ, are being crucified along with Our Savior and we will be resurrected someday.

Fr. Corapi says we are in spiritual warfare. In order to successfully combat the problem, you need to know who the enemies are, and the tactical strategies to counteract the enemy.


#10

Fr. Corapi named Satan and his angels as the enemy, not human beings. Hence, spiritual warfare. St. Paul said we wrestle not against flesh and blood.


#11

[quote=puzzleannie]the Creed is not said on weekdays, even in the old missal it was only said on certain feasts that occurred on weekdays. the gloria was never sung in lent before either, so why bring it up now. there are 3 options for the penitential rite, the first one includes the confiteor, as for repetition of the word grace, I can’t say what you mean, but one purpose of the NO Mass was to reduce needless repetition supposedly to make the references that remained that much stronger. Surely many good reasons to praise TLM but you will have to find other ones than those you lead off with.

also criticizing the English translation is not the same as criticizing the new missal, everybody admits the translation is bad which is why they keep pushing the translators back to the drawing board, but that is not per se a valid criticism of the NO.
[/quote]

In the early 90s I remember the creed being said at weekday mass. Why it changed I am not sure, but I miss it :frowning: At my parish, the do not say the “Communion antiphon” on weekdays either :frowning:


#12

Before I went back to My Eastern Catholic roots, I attended a Sunday Mass that was only 30 minutes long! :eek:
It was SO trimmed down, I thought I was at a chapel service.

In the Byzantine Catholic Church, our Divine Liturgy last at least 75 to 90 minutes. (almost an hour and a half). The shortest Divine Liturgy I ever attended was an hour (our pastor had the flu and needed to …hurry things along). However with that said, there is really now room to have a priest leave and then return to the Liturgy.


#13

Our Sunday Masses are never even an hour long. We are lucky if we get 40-45 minutes. Daily is probably @ 25 minutes tops. I was going to the local Latin parish for a while but I liked it so much I had to quit going. I feel like God wants me to be where I am. (maybe I have work to do there?) Since I am 32, I never experienced the TLM before, and I was amazed at all the richness contained in it.
I may be wrong, but I don’t think we say the confiteor on all Sundays. Now I don’t always go to my parish for Mass, we quite often go the local Shrine which is Maronite, but I am pretty sure that the Confiteor is often ommitted. Is that “I confess to Almighty God…etc.”? I really don’t recall saying that at our home parish very often, however my memory could be off about this. (I am often distracted by the kids) I am definately going to specifically pay attention to that next time.


#14

Well, I have one thing to say.

If you like the latin mass - keep going there…

if things upset you in the NO don’t go!

I am practicing in the latin rite and I just love it…don’t go to and fro, just practice where God wants you.


#15

Hmm…I know that the creed is omitted on Sundays during Lent when there are rites for Catechumens during the Mass…

Never seen it omitted otherwise…

:irish1: :irish2: :irish1:


#16

Hmm…I know that the creed is omitted on Sundays during Lent when there are rites for Catechumens during the Mass…

Never seen it omitted otherwise…

You must mean the Gloria, because the Creed is NEVER to be omitted on any Sunday of the year.

I’m glad I dont have to put up with all these short cuts, unless I go to a different parish. In my parish Sunday mass takes about 1 1/2 hours all the time. Nobody complains, not even the lil kids. Our liturgy is AU under the Roman Rite and our priests follow the rubrics of the AU liturgy exactly as it should be done. Also, they make sure they do not omit or skip anything. Even during the consecration they will look at the lectionary and follow the wording exactly. I know most priests have it memorized, but I have seen some at other parishes at times get a brain fog and stumble over the words. Our priests never take that chance so they will read it no matter if they have it memorized or not. If you’re in Dallas, Houston, Boston, or CC TEX you may want to try the AU parish in your area. I think there may be others, but I’m not certain.


#17

Years ago when I attended daily Mass in Latin, the priest would have the Mass over in 20 to 25 minutes. He would read the Latin so fast that it was hard to keep up in the little book that I had with Latin and the English translation. Many came to Mass on their way to work. Mass was often at 5 or 6 AM. Some said their rosary during Mass. It’s a little easier now going to daily Mass to follow along.

Deacon Tony

Deacon, That is so true that back then many priests would rush the mass even on Sundays. Its strange that many people who do not like the new mass claimed there were no abuses back then. There were abuses like this. The consecration was done so fast, and people standing in the back had no idea what was going on. They just stood there with their arms crossed. Before you knew it the priest was already giving the final blessing and off you went. I still remember that at times during the second collection, the priest was already finished and the ushers were still trying to collect $$ from people as they were walking out the door. Dont get me wrong. I love the TLM but the new mass, if done properly and in a reverent manner, is really beautiful. If the choir is well rehearsed and leads the singing instead of trying to put on a show it adds greatly to the mass.

The thing that even now adays if the mass is shorten by the priest skipping some prayers, its still not fast enough for some people. They receive communion and instead of going back to their pews, they walk straight out the door. We have a note posted on one of our doors that reminds people that “Judas left early too”.


#18

Well, I get bugged when one of pur priests doesn’t say a homily during the week. Last time, he was late for dinner or something. Another time, he just read the wrong readings. It’s annoying. Oh man, don’t get me started on altar serving. When somebody who has only been altar serving for a few months (me, and I’m 17) has to start correcting the altar servers who grew up doing it, you know there’s a problem. But, then again, I learned from the best.

Eamon


#19

It scares me that the Mass is losing importance. There is a priest at our parish who just doesn’t seem to get the importance of it. The alterservers are clueless too. They obviously don’t seem to go to Mass enough! I am afraid that next, the Cardnial (in Los Angeles) will take out the Consecration because it takes too much time!

God Bless–JMJ
Laura :wink:


#20

[quote=pnewton]Fr. Corapi named Satan and his angels as the enemy, not human beings. Hence, spiritual warfare. St. Paul said we wrestle not against flesh and blood.
[/quote]

Yeah, but the spiritual enemies work through human beings.


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