Fate Of Aborted/Miscarried Babies. (Theory)

I was thinking lately about the fate of aborted/miscarried babies, and how the bible says that if you aren’t baptised you can’t enter heaven, but it isn’t these kids fault if they weren’t born yet and never had the chance.

But since God knows all past, present and future, doesn’t it seem possible that this baby could be judged on what life he/she would have lead if he/she lived and had a chance at life?

After knowing someone who went through with an abortion, things have been flying through my mind and I have been thinking a lot more about abortion.

Does this not sound plausible?

Hey Steven,
I don’t know if I would go so far as to say that God would judge them based on what sort of life they would have lead or whether or not they would have accepted Christ, though I agree he would possess that knowledge in his omnipotence. Rather, I reflect back to the children who were slaughtered under Herod’s reign in his attempt to kill the baby Jesus. The Church considers these kids to be the first martyrs of the Church and assumes that God, who uses all things for God, would have used their horrible deaths as a redemptive suffering through which he brought them into heaven. Likewise, calling upon our doctrine of baptism by blood, I think that the very act of abortion, itself, along with God’s immeasurable grace, assures us these children are in heaven.
-Spencer

Baptism presupposes being “born again,” does it not? How can one be born again lest they be born the first time?

Might it be too much to suggest that those babies that die before their first birth may not be expressly limited to sacramental baptism due to the fact that they could not have received it, because baptism is only performed on those who have been born?

Also remember that we are limited to the sacraments, but God is not. God can sanctify who He wills, and we must entrust the unborn to his Divine mercy.

[quote=awfulthings9]Hey Steven,
I don’t know if I would go so far as to say that God would judge them based on what sort of life they would have lead or whether or not they would have accepted Christ, though I agree he would possess that knowledge in his omnipotence. Rather, I reflect back to the children who were slaughtered under Herod’s reign in his attempt to kill the baby Jesus. The Church considers these kids to be the first martyrs of the Church and assumes that God, who uses all things for God, would have used their horrible deaths as a redemptive suffering through which he brought them into heaven. Likewise, calling upon our doctrine of baptism by blood, I think that the very act of abortion, itself, along with God’s immeasurable grace, assures us these children are in heaven.
-Spencer
[/quote]

I suggest that you find the other two or three threads that discuss this topic. I’m not going to re-hash it. However that abortion which is the killing of an innocent person is not equivalent to Martyrdom or Baptism of Blood. Nothing assures us that these innocent children are in Heaven.

Steven,

If you were the one to decide the fate of these innocent ones whose lives have been cut off before they ever had a chance to be born, let alone be baptized, would you exclude them from the eternal happiness?

A priest asked me that question in response to a similar query to yours. I told him that of course I wouldn’t.

His response was another question (he had a horrible habit of doing that - making me think) …

“Do you think you are more compassionate than God?”

He never answered my question exactly, but he taught me to trust in God’s love and mercy.

Does that help?

I don’t believe God would use that kind of judgment for the pure fact that although that is what they WOULD’VE done, they didn’t actually do it. Granted you could argue that God’s omniscience would be so perfect as there wouldn’t be any question, but still that would mean that God created some children only for them to be sent to Hell with no active reason on their part. Just doesn’t follow through to me.

I tend to think that God is a LOT more merciful than we give Him credit for. I will try to leave any judgment, even pressumptions based on curiosity, to God alone.

The Catechism assures us these children are entrusted to God’s mercy and I cannot imagine anything more comforting and reliable than God’s mercy. Let us pray for the souls of those responsible for ending these innocent lives and pray especially for parents who lose children in death for any reason, particularly miscarriage.

[quote=asquared]The Catechism assures us these children are entrusted to God’s mercy and I cannot imagine anything more comforting and reliable than God’s mercy. Let us pray for the souls of those responsible for ending these innocent lives and pray especially for parents who lose children in death for any reason, particularly miscarriage.
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I was looking for something on this in the CCC before I read your post but couldn’t find anything. Can you tell me which CCC number it is?

[quote=Br. Rich SFO]Nothing assures us that these innocent children are in Heaven===================================================================.
[/quote]

I find this difficult to even begin to think this. If we are to have the mind of Christ how can anyone even think that aborted baby,s are not in the kingdom of heaven where they are brought into full restoration. :eek: God Bless

I think that they(aborted/miscarried babies) most likely experience full natural happiness, with no pain or heartache whatsoever!:thumbsup:

I heard in a talk by D’Ambrosio, about a theory going around that unbaptized babies could possibly be saved through a form of baptism by desire. The theory goes this way. Since an infant is baptized through the desire of their parents, maybe a baby who dies without being baptized could receive baptism by desire through the desire of their parents. This could apply to a baby who was born but died before it could be baptized or a baby who died through miscarriage or abortion. Given that, in the case of abortion, the parents are probably not going to be inclined to desire baptism for their aborted child, maybe the aborted child could be “adopted” by someone, anyone, who desires the child to be saved through a baptism of desire. Any of us could then pray for an aborted child/children to our almighty and merciful God to grant the child baptism thorough our desire that the child be baptized.

[quote=SPOKENWORD]I find this difficult to even begin to think this. If we are to have the mind of Christ how can anyone even think that aborted baby,s are not in the kingdom of heaven where they are brought into full restoration. :eek: God Bless
[/quote]

He is saying that we do not know, and indeed we do not.

It would merely be irresponsible to claim forthright that we do know when God clearly hasn’t revealed it to us, whether from the Holy Scriptures or in the Sacred Tradition of the Church. What we do know is that all are conceived in original sin, and that it requires baptism to cleanse that sin. The unborn simply can’t have baptism, sacramental or otherwise (by desire or blood). This isn’t to say either way what happens to these babies, simply that we don’t know, God hasn’t revealed it to us.

What we do know is that God is just, and that He is merciful. That’s all we have to go on. We entrust these souls to God’s divine mercy. What else can we do?

[quote=thistle]I was looking for something on this in the CCC before I read your post but couldn’t find anything. Can you tell me which CCC number it is?
[/quote]

section 1283 discusses children who die without baptism, is that what we are talking about here?

[quote=puzzleannie]section 1283 discusses children who die without baptism, is that what we are talking about here?
[/quote]

Yes, and see also 1259-1261.

The Semipelagians taught something similar to what you are saying:… the Massilians developed into determined opponents of Augustine. Testimony as to this change of feeling is supplied by two non-partisan laymen, Prosper of Aquitaine and a certain Hilarius, both of whom in their enthusiasm for the newly-blossoming monastic life voluntarily shared in the daily duties of the monks. In two distinct writings (St. Augustine, Epp. ccxxv-xxvi in P. L., XXXIII, 1002-12) they gave Augustine a strictly matter-of-fact report of the theological views of the Massilians. They sketched in the main the following picture, which we complete from other sources:
[INDENT]1. In distinguishing between the beginning of faith (initium fidei) and the increase of faith (augmentum fidei), one may refer the former to the power of the free will, while the faith itself and its increase is absolutely dependent upon God;

  1. the gratuity of grace is to be maintained against Pelagius in so far as every strictly natural merit is excluded; this, however, does not prevent nature and its works from having a certain claim to grace;

  2. as regards final perseverance in particular, it must not be regarded as a special gift of grace, since the justified man may of his own strength persevere to the end;

  3. the granting or withholding of baptismal grace in the case of children depends on the Divine prescience of their future conditioned merits or misdeeds.**This fourth statement, which is of a highly absurd nature, has never been condemned as heresy; the three other propositions contain the whole essence of Semipelagianism. **

Semipelagianism, The Catholic Encyclopedia, Volume XIII, Copyright © 1912 by Robert Appleton Company[/INDENT]

[quote=RobNY]He is saying that we do not know, and indeed we do not.

It would merely be irresponsible to claim forthright that we do know when God clearly hasn’t revealed it to us, whether from the Holy Scriptures or in the Sacred Tradition of the Church. What we do know is that all are conceived in original sin, and that it requires baptism to cleanse that sin. The unborn simply can’t have baptism, sacramental or otherwise (by desire or blood). This isn’t to say either way what happens to these babies, simply that we don’t know, God hasn’t revealed it to us.

What we do know is that God is just, and that He is merciful. That’s all we have to go on. We entrust these souls to God’s divine mercy. What else can we do?
[/quote]

So if He is just and merciful to the sinner what do you think the fate of the innocent is? :confused: God Bless

Today in the US we are killing “aborting” between 1500 and 2000 babies “fetus” a day.

What if everyone who has supported this, or elected to have one, at their death had to face all of these aborted souls.

Maybe on that day, God would allow them to have a voice that was taken away from them, maybe on that day through God’s perfection that they could love one another and through that love they might enter Heaven. Perhaps prior to that event that aborted human life has to wait, in a state of limbo, so that it will one day have that chance to love, through all the imperfections maybe that day its mother would be sorry for the sins she has committed, perhaps she was sorry after but this particular day the mother could ask this aborted soul to forgive her for what she has done.

For now we can only pray for the ones who abort and the aborted, instead of making judgement we should hope for the very best, for both parties involved, and the very best is Heaven.

“Oh my Jesus, Forgive us of our sins, save us from the fires of hell, especially those who are in most need of thy Mercy”

[quote=SPOKENWORD]I find this difficult to even begin to think this. If we are to have the mind of Christ how can anyone even think that aborted baby,s are not in the kingdom of heaven where they are brought into full restoration. :eek: God Bless
[/quote]

Because they are conceived with the stain of Original Sin.

[quote=volzcpa]Since an infant is baptized through the desire of their parents, maybe a baby who dies without being baptized could receive baptism by desire through the desire of their parents. This could apply to a baby who was born but died before it could be baptized or a baby who died through miscarriage or abortion.
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I would doubt that you will find any basis for this in the magisterium or Tradition of the Church. If this was a possible theory at least some of the Early Fathers would have written on this.

[quote=SPOKENWORD]So if He is just and merciful to the sinner what do you think the fate of the innocent is? :confused: God Bless
[/quote]

I’m not in any position to say what God will do.

I hope in God’s goodness and mercy.

I personally think that God is supremely merciful to them. I can’t assert that as if there is any theological underpinning for it, and I can’t even say I’m right. No matter what I think, it doesn’t change anything, so, I suppose, it’s rather irrelevant anyway.

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