Fate of baptized children who die (before sinning)?


#1

Is it correct to say that all baptized children who died before commiting a sin are in heaven?


#2

Yes. :slight_smile:


#3

I though the verdict was still out on this, concerning limbo and such.


#4

Dear friends

There is no such place as limbo, this suggests a lesser heaven and it cannot be heaven if it is not heaven in it’s full sense, that is Heaven is God, therefore all children who die before they are consciously able to commit a mortal sin enjoy the Beatific Vision and to suggest otherwise is not only ludicrous but is also irrational. Those who do not commit mortal sin live in love and if they live in love they live in God and if they live in God and die as such then they live in heaven forever, therefore children who die in this manner live with God forever whether they are baptised or not because if they are innocent as children are and live in love then it is foregone that their natural desire would be to desire Baptism.

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa


#5

[quote=springbreeze]Dear friends

There is no such place as limbo, this suggests a lesser heaven and it cannot be heaven if it is not heaven in it’s full sense, that is Heaven is God, therefore all children who die before they are consciously able to commit a mortal sin enjoy the Beatific Vision and to suggest otherwise is not only ludicrous but is also irrational. Those who do not commit mortal sin live in love and if they live in love they live in God and if they live in God and die as such then they live in heaven forever, therefore children who die in this manner live with God forever whether they are baptised or not because if they are innocent as children are and live in love then it is foregone that their natural desire would be to desire Baptism.

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa
[/quote]

I thought the Catholic teaching on the death of Unbaptized infants was that We trust in the Mercy of God.


#6

[quote=CatholicCid]I thought the Catholic teaching on the death of Unbaptized infants was that We trust in the Mercy of God.
[/quote]

Dear friend

Well what would the mercy of God be to cast them into hell for all eternity simply because they did not live long enough for their parents to Baptise them or for them to seek Baptism themselves. Man was not made for the Law, but law for the man and no child who cannot comprehend the law can be held accountable to the law, but only to love. Plus we are forgetting who gives life and takes life when we make statements like ‘trusting in the mercy of God’, would God take such a small earthly life for Him to condemn it if we trust in the Mercy of God and no small child can refuse God because they cannot sin, so it’s a mute point for me, they go to heaven, PERIOD!

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa


#7

The problem with assuming that very young children definitely go to heaven, is that it takes away free will from the child.


#8

Fate of Baptized children before sinning? Heaven

Fate of Un-Baptized children before sinning? I think the Church’s official teaching is… We don’t know.

Notworthy


#9

[quote=Ahimsa]The problem with assuming that very young children definitely go to heaven, is that it takes away free will from the child.
[/quote]

Dear friend

A young child knows no difference between free will and not having free will and this is the point they do not choose against because they cannot rationalise against God in any way shape or form.

They go to heaven, period, such is the Kingdom of Heaven, the innocent cannot be condemned.

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa


#10

[quote=NotWorthy]Fate of Baptized children before sinning? Heaven

Fate of Un-Baptized children before sinning? I think the Church’s official teaching is… We don’t know.

Notworthy
[/quote]

Dear friend

I know they go to heaven because the only thing that seperates children from God is the will to sin against God and these children have no will to sin. You may say they have original sin, but what God do we believe in to be love to stop children who have no opportunity to be baptised from being in heaven though at their age they know no evil. This is a ridiculous point and a mute point. They go to heaven, to suggest otherwise is not merciful and if it is not merciful it is not of God and such a child has no help but God and if God is no help to such a child then dear friends all of us who are capable of sin and are sinners are in dire straits and the God who gives self is no help to us either, this is ridiculous to contemplate and I cannot buy into children who die before consciously being able to sin go to hell because they were not old enough to be baptised nor their parents desired it for them, it makes every aborted child, a child in hell and I cannot, for one, accept that. They go to heaven, period.

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa


#11

[quote=springbreeze]Dear friend

Well what would the mercy of God be to cast them into hell for all eternity simply because they did not live long enough for their parents to Baptise them or for them to seek Baptism themselves. Man was not made for the Law, but law for the man and no child who cannot comprehend the law can be held accountable to the law, but only to love. Plus we are forgetting who gives life and takes life when we make statements like ‘trusting in the mercy of God’, would God take such a small earthly life for Him to condemn it if we trust in the Mercy of God and no small child can refuse God because they cannot sin, so it’s a mute point for me, they go to heaven, PERIOD!

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa
[/quote]

I am not denying that they go to Heaven, I believe that is the outcome as well…
But since they are Unbaptized and all other wierd possibilities out there, I assumed the Church took the stance, as NotWorthy put it, is We don’t know.

Does this mean that we are saying they don’t go to Heaven? Not at all… But since God works in mysterious ways and we cannot know the workings of Life After Death then what He has already revealed, we take the stance of His Glorious Mercy decides it.
So, we are not forgetting who gives life in the statement, but we acknowledge our lack of Knowledge of God’s working in these situations.

In Christ

CC


#12

Dear friend

We can know what happens to such children if we can clearly state what happens to those who can chose to give their fiat. Those whom are deprived of choice by early earthly death who cannot even comprehend they possess earthly life and understand it to any real meaning therefore are not nor can never be held to the law much older children of God are held to and only then are held to through knowledge of sin and mortal sin cannot be unless it possesses knowledge. So therefore to not even understand the concept of original sin is not the fault of the child born into such a broken humanity and as such is not held to such, how can this be if we believe in Christ Jesus who reached out to the most sinful and still His mercy forgave all, so such a child would be forgiven the ingorance of the original sin as such a young child has neither the developed mind to perceive it nor the heart to deny God.

Currently in the Church the theory of Limbo is under scrutiny and is expected to be abolished and this will be the case and as such if this is the case and it will be, there is no other conclusion to draw than that those who die before consciously able to sin against God do share in Him in eternity as God is Heaven and it is a state of being and by the very exposure to Him in the Sacrament of Baptism causes us to die and rise in Christ how much more so would this be in His Presence with one whom has commited no conscious sin?

Like I say it is a mute point. Just because a saint at some point theorised does not make it Gospel and this is a mistake the laity has made down the ages as it has never been doctrine, but theory and the laity have a habit of preaching theory as doctrine .

Jesus said Himself ‘I have many things to reveal to you’ and the Gospels are constantly being interpreted.

Why do you think Jesus mentioned children so little in the Gospels? It wasn’t because they were not important, rather it was because they are innocent and they do not work for their salvation, the Gospel is for the sinner and rather it is the sinner who does work for their salvation in, through and by the grace of Christ Jesus. Christ Jesus only ever mentions children to teach us to be like them!

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa


#13

Just a note I wasn’t asking about unbaptized children but baptized children who died before committing a personal sin. Does the Church teach that baptized children who die before sinning are definatley in heaven then?


#14

yes, anyone who dies in a state of sanctifying grace, which baptized infants enjoy until they are old enough to know, understand and commit actual sin, goes to heaven. Since they have no actual sin, sinful habits or inclinations, they also do not need purgatory.

[quote=Madia]Just a note I wasn’t asking about unbaptized children but baptized children who died before committing a personal sin. Does the Church teach that baptized children who die before sinning are definatley in heaven then?
[/quote]


#15

[quote=CatholicCid]I thought the Catholic teaching on the death of Unbaptized infants was that We trust in the Mercy of God.
[/quote]

Well done. You have nailed it. :thumbsup:


#16

[quote=springbreeze]Dear friend

I know they go to heaven because the only thing that seperates children from God is the will to sin against God and these children have no will to sin. You may say they have original sin, but what God do we believe in to be love to stop children who have no opportunity to be baptised from being in heaven though at their age they know no evil. This is a ridiculous point and a mute point.
[/quote]

Until the Church teaches differently, I’m not going to presume anything. We act as if we know God’s will. Why is it only options A or B? Could there be another possibility. Of course, the answer is yes, there could.

One of the limitations on Magisterial Infallibility is that if the Church doesn’t know the answer to a question such as this, it will keep silent. Until then, I will keep silent, too.

Notworthy


#17

Before this discussion becomes too contentious, I will step in here and point out that the current thinking of the church is pretty much the same as that concerning those who take their own lives. We do not/cannot know for sure, however we do know that the mercy of God & justice of God can be trusted in both these cases.

Limbo was never actually a teaching of the church though many of us were taught about it growing up. I think that it was sort of developed to help assure us that God’s mercy and love will prevail.

Keep the charity level good in here, and Merry Christmas to you all!


#18

[quote=Madia]Is it correct to say that all baptized children who died before commiting a sin are in heaven?
[/quote]

Whoever God claims as His own will be with Him. And that is what He does in Baptism.

Mel


#19

[quote=Celia]I though the verdict was still out on this, concerning limbo and such.
[/quote]

Except that the question was about baptised babies. :wink:


#20

Yes,

i don’t know why we’re talking about limbo since we’re talking about babies AFTER they are baptized.

I think this is a case of assuming what the thread was about and not carefully reading the first post on this thread.


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