Fatima: Our Lady's comment about Amelia


#1

I hope I'm posting this in the right spot.

During one of the apparitions at Fatima, the children asked Our Blessed Mother about one of their friends who was named Amelia. Mary told them, "Amelia will be in Purgatory till the end of the world."

This has always bothered me because it seemed way over the top. These were little kids. What could Amelia have done to deserve this?

Gary


#2

I was just about to post the same question myself. Our Lady also told Fransisco that he would enter heaven but AFTER MANY ROSARIES which kind of implies that if he didn't he too would go to Purgatory. This type of judgement is totally contradictory to the message we hear today where everyone goes to heaven. I think Our Lady said Amelia would go to Purgatory because she looked at impure magazines. Considering all the sexual sin I've committed this scares me very much.


#3

The real question should be “Are we privy to that information?” And I think the answer is no.


#4

Many prophecies/ predictions both in private revelation and in the Bible can be changed by the behavior of those who hear them. For example, Jonah's warning to Nineveh that the city would be destroyed didn't come to pass because the people repented.

Mary's words certainly show that even teenagers can seriously sin and imperil their souls. And yet, she did not say that the girl was in hell. Since we know that our prayers aid those in purgatory, we should be moved to pray for this girl. It may even be that the children did so. We can hope that our prayers will obtain her release from purgatory.


#5

I read that Amelia wasn't so young, and committed adultery, or fornication, or something similar..... in any case, I remember it being something major. She was sorry for it but perhaps didn't have enough time to do penance, so had to go to Purgatory for longer. I've read about other stories, where people shortened their time in Purgatory but their love for God and amount of contrition.


#6

[quote="Claire_from_DE, post:4, topic:208204"]
Many prophecies/ predictions both in private revelation and in the Bible can be changed by the behavior of those who hear them. For example, Jonah's warning to Nineveh that the city would be destroyed didn't come to pass because the people repented.

Mary's words certainly show that even teenagers can seriously sin and imperil their souls. And yet, she did not say that the girl was in hell. Since we know that our prayers aid those in purgatory, we should be moved to pray for this girl. It may even be that the children did so. We can hope that our prayers will obtain her release from purgatory.

[/quote]

Yes, perhaps because of this story many people began praying for Amelia, and her time in Purgatory has been shortened :)


#7

[quote="coolduude, post:3, topic:208204"]
The real question should be "Are we privy to that information?" And I think the answer is no.

[/quote]

I didn't ask because I was interested in the specifics of Amelia's spiritual life. It's more a matter of if a nine-year-old (I'm making an assumption here but I think I'm in the ball park) can go to Purgatory until Jesus returns, what do the rest of us deserve? We're talking about a Portuguese peasant girl somewhere around 1917 who probably died of an illness. What did she do? Kill a man just to watch him die?

Gary


#8

I read that she was much older than 9


#9

[quote="Monica4316, post:5, topic:208204"]
I read that Amelia wasn't so young, and committed adultery, or fornication, or something similar..... in any case, I remember it being something major. She was sorry for it but perhaps didn't have enough time to do penance, so had to go to Purgatory for longer. I've read about other stories, where people shortened their time in Purgatory but their love for God and amount of contrition.

[/quote]

Without a source I'd be a bit skeptical about this. She is described as the visionaries' friend.


#10

[quote="notredame_999, post:2, topic:208204"]
I was just about to post the same question myself. Our Lady also told Fransisco that he would enter heaven but AFTER MANY ROSARIES which kind of implies that if he didn't he too would go to Purgatory. This type of judgement is totally contradictory to the message we hear today where everyone goes to heaven. I think Our Lady said Amelia would go to Purgatory because she looked at impure magazines. Considering all the sexual sin I've committed this scares me very much.

[/quote]

We don't know to what extent she repented. It's consoling to remember that much is forgiven those who sincerely repent, do penance, and perform acts of mercy. Those who trust in God's mercy and are merciful can expect to receive His mercy.


#11

Like I said earlier, what scares me more than Amelia is that Our Lady told Fransisco he would have to say many rosaries if he wanted to go to heaven directly like Jacinta and Lucia. He was only like 9 years old- this should wake all of us up


#12

[quote="garysibio, post:7, topic:208204"]
I didn't ask because I was interested in the specifics of Amelia's spiritual life. It's more a matter of if a nine-year-old (I'm making an assumption here but I think I'm in the ball park) can go to Purgatory until Jesus returns, what do the rest of us deserve? We're talking about a Portuguese peasant girl somewhere around 1917 who probably died of an illness. What did she do? Kill a man just to watch him die?

Gary

[/quote]

Umm. . .I think you might have a bit of a misunderstanding about what Purgatory is.

Any sin's temporal effects (venial or mortal) will keep us from entering heaven until those sins are 'purged.' Right?

Now. . .mortal sins, of course, will result in hell--unless they are forgiven.

Gary, you seem to think that a repented mortal sin by, say, some high-ranking Nazi official, is what should keep people in purgatory 'until the end of the world' whereas some '9-year-old girl' with relatively 'minor' venial sins should have been 'excused' from purgatory by now at least.

I can think of a couple of responses.

A. Though not a comforting thought, Gary, the 'end of the world' could be only a short time away. IOW, if this young girl died less than 100 years ago, and the end of the world is imminent. . .well, suddenly the time in purgatory for her is a lot less than the 'thousands and thousands of years' that people envision who confidently imagine the 'end of the world' as being way distant in the future.

B. On the other hand, the end of the world could indeed be thousand of thousands of years away.
What IF most people in purgatory are there pretty much until the end of the world?
What IF to people in purgatory, "Time" as we know it does not exist? Therefore, to be in purgatory 'to the end of the world' for them would be some kind of experience but it would not be felt as though they existed IN TIME.

And a final. . WHAT IF purgatory's 'torments' were different depending on the sin, number and nature, degree of culpability, etc.?

Suppose purgatory is like a cleansing fire. Well, then, rather than thinking that a 'small spot' (like a 9 year old girl with venial sin) only needs a brief 'burst of fire' for a SHORT TIME. . .

What IF that young girl is receiving a long, slow, thorough cleansing that, while it 'purifies' is not nearly as 'intense' or painful as the 30 year old man suffering a long, slow thorough cleansing but at a somewhat 'higher' intensity of purgation?

Thing is, you're dangerously close to a kind of view that people really 'deserve' to have little if any punishment in purgatory if they're only guilty of 'little sins'. . .but that isn't the case. That's a kind of view that is not found in Scripture or tradition. . . ALL have sinned and NONE are worthy, Christ has saved us but 'as through fire' and if you're disturbed thinking, "if 'little sins get punished in a way that seems 'excessive' to me, what about big ones' --well, congratulations --you are obviously coming 'face to face' with the concept of a sense of sin--something that far too many people living today *have lost, to their own grave danger. *

Do not despair --as that itself is a grave sin. . .after all, the news is good --and after purgatory, one's ultimate home is always heaven!

BUT. . .do not 'presume' either. That is an equally grave sin. Presumption that our sins are so few, so minor, that we're not REALLY going to suffer (much). . .if at all, 'compared to all the really BAD people out there'. . .is a real spiritual danger for many people. Don't compare yourself to anybody, lest you get a false idea as to your own 'goodness' or 'badness'. You aren't in competition with ANYBODY. And the one whom sin (any sin) offends is God. . .so try to do as much as you can on earth to atone for your sins.

You're a little too late I THINK to get the Portiuncula Indulgence this year (though you might just make it, check with your priest) but there are other ways to get partial and plenary indulgences that will help you with purgatory. Check them out and God bless.


#13

Oh, these are wonderful thoughts to ponder. I haven’t been able to get on the computer much lately but these will keep me busy thinking for awhile. Thanks.


#14

Purgatory is where we are cleansed from any remaining temporal punishment which remains from our sins. I understand that a 9-year-old girl can sin but, let's be honest, how much temporal punishment can she have chalked up?

It is my understanding that Purgatory will cease to exist at the final judgment. In other words this girl is getting the max. I still don't see a good explanation for this.

Gary


#15

The time one spends in Purgatory can be shortened –by those still living on earth– through expressions of love conveyed through Masses said for them. Almsgiving and other good deeds, sacrifices, acts of reparation and mortification, and prayers unselfishly offered by priestly people at Holy Mass can be presented by a moral priest for their benefit. According to the sincerity of the offerer and the worthiness of the celebrant priest, the recipient in Purgatory receives a proportionately heightened learning experience by which he can gauge and adjust his own faulty value systems and otherwise increase his own love of God.

  13 May 1917, Fatima, Portugal
               During a conversation between Lucia Abóbora (dos Santos) –the oldest of the three children of Fatima, born 22 March 1907 and still living– and Our Lady of Fatima, Lucia had asked if a deceased friend, Amelia, was in Heaven. The Blessed Mother responded, "She will be in Purgatory until the end of the world."
              ** It is believed that this girl, about 16 years of age, had become involved with sins of fleshly desire.** On a later date the three children were given a vision in which countless numbers of people were endlessly falling into Hell. Many years later Lucia said she believed that most people go to Hell because of sins of the flesh. 

(trosch.org/for/purgatory.htm)


#16

Frankly I saw nothing on your link that answers my question. They mention the girls being 16 and being involved in sexual sin but where's the evidence of this? Sr. Lucia wrote extensively of these events and I don't remember her addressing this issue. It seems to me that, if this was true about the girl, she would have mentioned something.

Thinking about all this brings up another question: What is time when you are in Purgatory? Keep in mind that the Church defines Purgatory as a state, not a place. Thinking of Purgatory as a place helps us wrap our minds around it but can also distort reality.

2 Pet 3:8 But there is one thing, my dear friends, that you must never forget: that with the Lord, a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.

I take this to mean that God, who created time, is outside of time. It seems to me that Purgatory would be outside of time also. Thoughts, anyone?

Gary


#17

Put it this way - ANY sin, even the most minor, is still an incomprehensibly offensive thing to an all-perfect God. Kinda like even the least suspicion of a spot or stain on your clothing will totally upset you if you're really obsessively neat and clean. Whereas it might not bother someone whose notions of hygiene are less strict.

True, sins that merit purgatory are not mortal, they don't completely kill our relationship with him, but that doesn't mean even small venial sins mightn't still require a lot of purgation in order for us to be utterly perfect and thus worthy of (and prepared for) the presence of God who is perfection itself.


#18

Gary, I’ve read in several articles about Purgatory that the sense of time there is different…

I hope that the story about Amelia isn’t bothering you… remember it’s just one case, and private revelation, - it doesn’t contradict what the Church teaches on Purgatory. :slight_smile: ultimately, it’s God who decides where we go, and if Purgatory, for how long. The best we can do on earth is just try to make it to Heaven and love God the best we can. Based on what I read about the Saints, they were more concerned with loving God and doing His will than avoiding Purgatory…


#19

Dear Gary,
I believe we should pray for the repose of Amelia's Soul in Purgatory.


#20

[quote="BluesPicker, post:19, topic:208204"]
Dear Gary,
I believe we should pray for the repose of Amelia's Soul in Purgatory.

[/quote]

True, and possibly have Masses said for her?

But if the Blessed Mother said she'll be in there until the end of the world, will it really help?


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