Fatima...third secret?

I was listening the Mel Gibson today on the radio and he was talking about his recent meeting with the last of the children of Fatima. He wanted to ask her about the “thrid secret” but thought not.

What’s the story about these Fatima secrets? Apparently the first two have been revealed, and fullfilled. The last one has yet to be fully revealed?

Thanks in advance for any enlightenment on this subject…

Here, try this article. It talks about the third secret, and the whole bottom portion is by Cardinal Ratzinger. The site it is on is a good source of articles if you’re into education.

catholiceducation.org/articles/facts/fm0040.html

fatima.org

[quote=cleopa]fatima.org
[/quote]

Please don’t use this site for real info. Fr. Gruner is a disobedient priest. Many are going to say that Fr. Gruner is a saint who has done nothing wrong but I suggest you google him before you buy this. You might want to search the CA site first.

First of all…you do realize Mel belongs to a schismatic group don’t you?
The radtrads try to use Fatima as a weapon against our pope - and I’m referring specifically to Fr. Gruner.

Please…for the love of God! The third secret has been revealed!
The world has been consecrated!!!

Here is information from the vatican on Fatima…

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20000626_message-fatima_en.html

[quote=BenRosa]I was listening the Mel Gibson today on the radio and he was talking about his recent meeting with the last of the children of Fatima. He wanted to ask her about the “thrid secret” but thought not.

What’s the story about these Fatima secrets? Apparently the first two have been revealed, and fullfilled. The last one has yet to be fully revealed?

Thanks in advance for any enlightenment on this subject…
[/quote]

I heard the interview to but I didn’t hear the same thing as you. He visited Sister Lucia to show her his movie The Passion of the Christ. The interviewer, Raymond Arroyo of EWTN’s World Over asked him if he discussed anything else with her liek the third secret and he casually said that he didn’t feel it appropriate and dismiss it with a little humor. The movie was the promary purpose of his visit.

Fr. Gruner is a disobedient priest.

I’m not sure about that. I am sure he has been the victim of a modernist campaign from within the Vatican to shut him up about Fatima. Fatima apparantly doesn’t fit the new compromise based orientation of the Church to the world, so it has to be discarded.

He is faithful to Catholic Dogma - something many of our theologians teaching in our seminaries are not.
He gets the flack from the Vatican and they carry on teaching error to our future priests.

Whatever - he and his associates have made some excellent points through various outlets about the current appalling state of the Church and the abandonment of it’s Christ-given mission to “make disciples of all the nations” in pursuit of some pan-religious brother-hood of world religions which has been condemned by numerous Popes in the past.

It’s a crazy mixed-up Church.

But in the end the Immaculate Heart will triumph and the gates of Hell will not prevail (but the seige is definately on).

As for the Third Secret…

Lucia wrote Our Lady’s words “In Portugal the Dogma of faith will always be preserved etc.” as a lead into the Third Secret. In the text revealed by the Vatican there are no words of Our Lady which has lead many people to think something is not quite right.

Yes I know the Vatican says that Sr Lucia said there was nothing left to reveal. But Sister Lucia was not allowed to freely speak about Fatima from 1960 onwards - the only person in the world not allowed to. Anything we get attributed to Sr Lucia since is always second-hand and open to suspicion.

Cardinal Ratzinger in 1984 in an interview for Jesus magazine said he had read the third secret and it concerned a crisis of faith and the “last times”. In 2000 he changed his tune and said the secret was fulfilled in 1981. That is bizarre - he was either lying then or now. Something is not right.

Fatima confirms all the traditional teaching of the Church, everything that modernist Churchmen hate.

The battle continues.

Mary Immaculate come to our aid.

Jesus have mercy on us - we know not what we do.

[quote=maryprayforme]I heard the interview to but I didn’t hear the same thing as you.
[/quote]

The interviewer was Sean Hannity on his radio show of yesterday…but you are correct, Mel was visiting with Sr. Lucia for the purpose of showing her his new film.

Thank you all very much for the replies…although, I’m not sure they have cleared this subject up for me, but rather, made it even more confusing. It appears that there is a lack unity among Catholics on the meaning, purpose, and, or validity of these “secrets”. However, I will keep investigating.

May His peace be with you all…

I used to be confused too…but then I began to see a clear pattern develop.

Whenever I had a discussion with a supporter of Fr. Gruner (who IS a disobedient priest and has been suspended from the priesthood) inevitably that person’s dislike for this pope and our Church would surface.
These folks have placed the “authority” of a crazy priest over the authority of our pope. They are much more willing to believe crazy conspiracy theories and trash the church - then they are willing to trust the Church and even give her a little benefit of the doubt.
They are much more willing to believe that the Church would treat Sr. Lucia poorly and stifle her - then to believe that the Church gave her opportunities to get her story out.
Lucia received many visits over the years - many visits from these conspiracy theory folks too - she was amused at the constant questioning and dismissed the crazy claims.

They pretend that the Church was perfect prior to Vatican II, and that council destroyed everything (but they are vague about pointing to specific Vatican II documents to prove their case)

The more I listen to these radtrads the scarier they sound.

but they are vague about pointing to specific Vatican II documents to prove their case)

By the fruits…!

The Catholic Church has unquestionably been hijacked by modernists which all the Popes before John XXIII warned against.

There is a battle being waged within the Church , thank God we still have people who are not humanists and modernists.

Thank God no false dogma has been defined so far.

There has been plenty of bad pastoral care though. It is a scandal to the faithful to reach out to other religions as though they have something we do not or that we can share, or that we can learn from. To pray with them as if they have someone to pray to. There ARE NO OTHER Gods.

Jesus is our redeemer. All other religion is false - no other religion offers this redemption to mankind. To give the followers of other religions the impression that there is something worthy about their false beliefs is sinful. To call them “great religions” is to deny the divinty and the neccessity of Our Lord’s sacrifice.

We need to convert them - not encourage them. That is our mission as given by Our Lord.

The modernists are not happy with this. Fatima contains the essense of everything they hate and they have fought against it since the 1940’s.

It is not suprising there is a crisis in faith (as attested to by Cardinal Ratzinger in 1984) when the Church is afraid to proclaim it has the fullness of truth and other religions do not. What are the faithful supposed to make of it when they see our leaders in prayer with other religions? It’s called “indifferentism” and it’s no wonder Catholics are becoming indifferent towards their own religion.

Pray for the Pope. Pray for the Church.

Mary will triumph in the end.

Father Gruner is not suspended by the way.

Yes Fr. Gruner is suspended.
And thank you for your post- it illustrated exactly what I’ve been observing lately for radtrads.

Regarding the valid suspension of Fr. Gruner

ewtn.com/expert/answers/fr_gruner.htm

Of course, like many other schismatics and dissenters, Fr.Gruner is denying the “validity” of the suspension.
It appears Fr. Gruner considers his own authority to be superior to that of the Church.

Suspended or not suspended that is the question!

fatima.org/apostolate/defense/notsusvir.asp

Father Gruner has to be silenced by the modernists in the Church because he is deemed “off message” as far as Fatima is concerned. Fatima confirms everything the modernists hate, they want to see “Fatima” as the past and never hear of it again.

Why is Father Gruner being hounded whilst in our Catholic Seminaries we have openly heretical theologians teaching our future priests? Why is he being hounded and warm messages being sent out to heretics like Hans Kung?

You have probably assumed that I am a traditionist - and you would be wrong. I have not attended a Latin mass since my youth in the 1960’s. Our Lady said “In Portugal the dogma of faith will always be preserved etc”. The faith in Portugal is predominatly Novus Ordo, so I don’t see a problem with that.

The problem as I see it is that “indifferentism” is going unchecked, what are the faithful to make of it when they see our leaders praying with other religions? It’s no wonder the Church’s are emptying at a rapid rate. Does it matter if you Catholic, Protestant, Muslim, Hindu, Buddist or Jew? Do we need Our Lord’s sacrifice?
“You don’t need to go to Church to be good”. Ever had that debate?

Apparantly the false religions are “the great religions”. We can even learn from them! If I hear one more priest quote Gandi again I will scream.

It’s a scandal.

Modernism was strongly opposed by every Pope before John XIII. The Second Vatican was deliberately ambigious in its definitions, the modernists have since picked up the ball and run with it.

And we see the fruits of “the spirit of Vatican II”.

God raise up strong defenders of the Catholic faith.

Mary Immaculate pray for us.

It is interesting that the only link you provide comes from Fr. Gruner’s own website!
Could you find a link associated with the Church that supports his claims?

Why is Father Gruner being hounded whilst in our Catholic Seminaries we have openly heretical theologians teaching our future priests? Why is he being hounded and warm messages being sent out to heretics like Hans Kung?

Hans Kung has been receiving similar treatment from Rome as Fr. Gruner has - despite the fact he is a personal acquaintance of Ratzinger’s.
Gruner and Kung happen to be on opposite ends of the spectrum is all.

what are the faithful to make of it when they see our leaders praying with other religions?

I had no idea catholics were forbidden from praying with people from other religions.
Could you point me to where the Church has forbidden this?

Does it matter if you Catholic, Protestant, Muslim, Hindu, Buddist or Jew? Do we need Our Lord’s sacrifice?

Sure it matters…at the same time it is important to remember that God loves ALL people equally regardless of their religion.
He wants to save ALL of us. Everyone needs Jesus’s sacrifice whether they know it or not.
I am in no position to put limits on how God may or may not save others - that is His department.

You don’t need to go to Church to be good". Ever had that debate?

Sure - it’s a silly debate.
But I don’t pretend to know what will happen with that person.
Everyone has a story. Only God knows everyone’s story.
We should pray for these people. Yes…maybe we should even pray WITH these people.

Apparantly the false religions are “the great religions”. We can even learn from them! If I hear one more priest quote Gandi again I will scream.

Where does our Church declare false religions as "the great religions?
Do you believe you can learn NOTHING from a person if that person is not a catholic?

It’s a scandal

I’m sorry. Exactly WHAT is a scandal? That catholics have prayed with other people?

The Second Vatican was deliberately ambigious in its definitions, the modernists have since picked up the ball and run with it.

And how are you in the position to know who did what “deliberately” and who did not?
You must know then…exactly which bishops and cardinals were “deliberately” ambiguous?
Could you point me to these deliberately ambiguous documents?
Deliberately ambiguous phrases?

Yes…modernists have misinterpretated VII.
That is not a problem with VII - that is a problem with modernists.

And we see the fruits of “the spirit of Vatican II”.

I see no “good fruits” in a priest attacking our pope - spreading wild paranoid conspiracy theories - and denying the authority of the Church when he has CLEARLY BEEN SUSPENDED!!

God raise up strong defenders of the Catholic faith.

Thank God for Pope John Paul II!!!

Mary Immaculate pray for us.

Yes indeed.

More information on the circumstances of Fr.Gruner’s suspension.
In the eyes of the Church he is suspended.

People can either be with the Church - or with Gruner on this one.

I choose the Church…

catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=4086

Yes!

And thank God that no false dogma will *EVER *be defined!

Thank God for papal infallibility!

[quote=BenRosa]Thank you all very much for the replies…although, I’m not sure they have cleared this subject up for me, but rather, made it even more confusing. It appears that there is a lack unity among Catholics on the meaning, purpose, and, or validity of these “secrets”.
[/quote]

Fatima is a *private *revelation, so it is not required that Catholics agree on it. It is not part of public revelation. In regard to private revelation, the Church often investigates and makes a statement about how worthy of belief the event was, but she does not say we have to believe them. So, naturally Catholics will hold different opinions about them.

Both my link and Lorarose’s link carry much of the same info. The Church has told us what the third “secret” was and there is some interpretation offered. The consecration appears to have happened.

[quote=Pug]Fatima is a *private *revelation, so it is not required that Catholics agree on it. So, naturally Catholics will hold different opinions about them.

[/quote]

Pug, thanks for putting this subject back into proper perspective.

[quote=John_19_59]Fr. Gruner is a disobedient priest.

I’m not sure about that. I am sure he has been the victim of a modernist campaign from within the Vatican to shut him up about Fatima. Fatima apparantly doesn’t fit the new compromise based orientation of the Church to the world, so it has to be discarded.
[/quote]

Oh. Now it is the Modernists, lurking in the corridors of the Vatican. Are they the ones in secret, clandestine meetings with the Masons, and the Illuminati, and the Coummunist subversives who have taken over the seminaries? Oh, and I forgot the New World Order gang…

[quote=John_19_59]He is faithful to Catholic Dogma
[/quote]

Right. He is faithful to whatever dogma he decided is valid, but not the dogma that gives the authority to the Pope, and which he has selectively decided not to obey. Next, we will hear that he “follows his conscience”, the same claim that the extreme liberals trot out each time they choose to be disobedient to Rome. They both are so far out around the corner, they are going to meet in back.

[quote=John_19_59]Cardinal Ratzinger in 1984 in an interview for Jesus magazine said he had read the third secret and it concerned a crisis of faith and the “last times”. In 2000 he changed his tune and said the secret was fulfilled in 1981. That is bizarre - he was either lying then or now. Something is not right.
[/quote]

It is only bizzare to those whose thinking, in itself is a bit bizarre. He could easily be talking about specific parts of the contents of the letter at each time. One does not have to lie to talk about a subject from one aspect one time, and another aspect another time, when the subject has more than one part.

The folks who get themselves all wrapped up in conspiracy theories are generally those who are not wrapped up too tightly to begin with. the purpose of Fatima is to lead us to Christ. If it is distracting us or sidelining us down conspiracy alleys, we are not paying attention to the message.

the prophecy of Fatima, like almost all prophecies, is in vague as opposed to explicit terms, and capable of more than one absolute definition. It is not magic, faith is not magic, and we need to make darned sure we are not giving it more credence than we give the Bible and the tteaching authority of the Church. Gruner thought he had the iniside track and everyone was ignoring the Truth of the Fatima Secret. We are not even required to believe it; it is approved by the Church as private revelation that is to draw us closer to Christ. But in the scale of divinely revealed truth, it is inconsequential. Not of no merit, but inconsequential. If one never heard of it, one could still be the most saintly of persons on earth.

otm…your post just reminded of something else John said…

You have probably assumed that I am a traditionist - and you would be wrong. I have not attended a Latin mass since my youth in the 1960’s. Our Lady said “In Portugal the dogma of faith will always be preserved etc”. The faith in Portugal is predominatly Novus Ordo, so I don’t see a problem with that.

Do you notice WHY John thinks the Novus Ordo is valid?
He doesn’t think it is valid because the CHURCH has declared it valid.
No…he thinks it’s valid because of one statement Mary made at Fatima (and she wasn’t even concerning herself with the NO)

It appears someone’s faith is based on a twisted contorted interpretation of Fatima…and not based on the deposit of faith passed onto the Church by Christ and His apostles.

I hope I’m wrong, because if I’m not…that is very sad.

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