Fatima tries to drive out Traditional Catholics

cfnews.org/disrupt.htm

Some photos here:
laportelatine.org/lpl/communic/presse/2005/fatima/page.php

http://www.laportelatine.org/lpl/communic/presse/2005/fatima/fatima2/fat16.jpg

It sounds like a bunch of childishness on both sides, although the article was obviously biased.

if they let hindus and anglicans to the shrine to worship, they must let schismatic traditionalists as well.

Quote from article, from a Father Kevin Robinson of Australia:

“This is the power of Tradition over the devil-inspired new religion.”

If this is what they think of us, I hope the Holy Father is aware of it. If they don’t repudiate statements and mindsets regarding the post-VII Church, then I fail to see how they can be brought back into the Church. They regard the Mass of Paul VI to be an “abomination.”

Now then lets see…

Which would you prefer???

This,

or this?

http://www.laportelatine.org/lpl/communic/presse/2005/fatima/fatima2/fat16.jpg

Seeing that Rome has so far refused to step in and correct the mess that has become of our Lady’s Shrine at Fatima, then God bless the SSPX for standing up for the One, True Faith of 2000 years.—Shame on the rector of the Fatima Shrine for all he has failed to do over the past several years!

P.S. Before everyone jumps all over this, no, I am not a member of the SSPX. But I am very sympathetic to their cause, in light of the past 40 years of systematic destruction of Holy Mother Church.

P.S. Before everyone jumps all over this, no, I am not a member of the SSPX. But I am very sympathetic to their cause, in light of the past 40 years of systematic destruction of Holy Mother Church.

i agree for the most part. though, the traditionalist folk tend to discount everything post VII. some even reject pius xii changes in the liturgy since he is the first to change the liturgy on his own accord for better or worse.

i’ve talked to a traditionalist non schismatic seminarian who refuses to read anything JPII wrote or even B16. so they may have valid points, but they also look absurd by rejecting the new catechism and all of the excellent work that’s been done as a result of VII. even carl rahner makes some good points. it’s one thing to question the liturgy, it’s another to stubornly hold on to traditions just because they are from 1850, like rejecting the divine mercy chaplet.

they should veiw themselves as having a special charism by preserving our rich latin tradtions. this tradionalist movement should be seen as a lay movement similar to neocatecumenal way or opus dei if it is to be taken seriously.

[quote=oat soda]i agree for the most part. though, the traditionalist folk tend to discount everything post VII. some even reject pius xii changes in the liturgy since he is the first to change the liturgy on his own accord for better or worse.

i’ve talked to a traditionalist non schismatic seminarian who refuses to read anything JPII wrote or even B16. so they may have valid points, but they also look absurd by rejecting the new catechism and all of the excellent work that’s been done as a result of VII. even carl rahner makes some good points. it’s one thing to question the liturgy, it’s another to stubornly hold on to traditions just because they are from 1850, like rejecting the divine mercy chaplet.

they should veiw themselves as having a special charism by preserving our rich latin tradtions. this tradionalist movement should be seen as a lay movement similar to neocatecumenal way or opus dei if it is to be taken seriously.
[/quote]

I never heard of an SSPX supporter rejecting the divine mercy chaplet. In Poland, the SSPX there is big on the Divine Mercy Chaplet. Maybe you are talking about sedevacantist?

The article proves, without a doubt that we are in the New Pentecost, the New Advent, that “Unity in Diversity” has been accomplished, that the “civilization of Love” is being fulfilled, that “one need not have the same Liturgy, Disciplines and Theology to be in unity”…BXVI.
If anyone does not believe that, then turn up the volume on the PA.
Once again:
**Ecumenism: The destruction of internal unity in the false hope of external unity.
**

Here is a translation of what happened at Fatima:
radtrad.blogspot.com/2005/08/sspx-act-of-reparation-in-fatima.html

Not all Indians were pleased that Hindus were allowed to worship at Fatima.

[quote=Fergal]Now then lets see…

Which would you prefer???

This,

or this?

http://www.laportelatine.org/lpl/communic/presse/2005/fatima/fatima2/fat16.jpg
[/quote]

I didn’t say I would prefer Hindus worshipping at the Shrine. I’ve never heard a reliable report that they did or if they did, that they had permission, at least not a reliable report from a neutral news source or an official Church source. I’ve only heard of it second hand, from people who have an axe to grind with the post-Counciliar Church and rad-trad websites. If they were given permission, that’s not good. It’s also NOT the Apocalypse or the Abomination of Desolation nor have the gates of Hell prevailed against the Church.

What I said was “if this is what they think of us.” TNT, months ago, you asked me to attend a TLM, even at the SSPX if that was the only one I could find. I did last Sunday. I commented on a different thread re: my impressions, but I will repeat what the priest said at that Mass. He called the Mass of Paul VI an “abomination.” Now, this priest in the article may be talking about Hinduism, or he may be talking about the post-counciliar Church. If he’s talking about the Church or the Mass of the Church, I fail to see what we’re supposed to do to end the schism: repudiate the Council? Repudiate the Mass of Paul VI? I may be mistaken, but I don’t hear them them calling for a halt to the abuse of the Mass of Paul VI, I hear them calling the Mass of Paul VI an abuse in and of itself and calling for the Tridentine Mass as the normative Mass of the Church (if I’m mistaken in this, I would be glad to learn it). I’m as attached to the Mass of Paul VI as they are to the TLM (my reaction to the TLM of last Sunday has been to attend the daily 6:30 Mass at my parish, possible with my new school schedule, in gratitude for the Novus Ordo). I fail to see why I should feel “warm and fuzzy,” if you will, about the SSPX when they call the Mass I love an abomination and when they call the Church I love “a devil-inspired religion.”

[quote=JKirkLVNV]I didn’t say I would prefer Hindus worshipping at the Shrine. I’ve never heard a reliable report that they did or if they did, that they had permission, at least not a reliable report from a neutral news source or an official Church source. I’ve only heard of it second hand, from people who have an axe to grind with the post-Counciliar Church and rad-trad websites. If they were given permission, that’s not good. It’s also NOT the Apocalypse or the Abomination of Desolation nor have the gates of Hell prevailed against the Church.

[/quote]

I gave you a picture above what more definitive proof do you need?

[quote=Fergal]I gave you a picture above what more definitive proof do you need?
[/quote]

Sorry, I should have been more clear. If it happened was it sanctioned by the Church? By whom in the Church? And can it be used to try and whomp the almighty spit out of the Church? Is the fact that it happened a DIRECT RESULT of all that the SSPX alledges is wrong with the Church?

[quote=Fergal]I gave you a picture above what more definitive proof do you need?
[/quote]

Besides which, yes, I need something more definitive! I could put on the robes of Hindu priest and go and stand at the altar of my parish church with my hands raised while someone snapped my picture. I’m not saying that this DIDN’T happen, I’m saying I’ve never heard it from any source other than rad trad sites (I’m not attempting to slander the intergrity of any person on this thread. Fergal, our discourses have always been civilized and courteous) that people here have quoted. And if people can engage in conspiracy theories regarding Archbishop Bugninni being a Mason and Protestants writing our Mass, then I don’t see why I can’t take a little amble down X-File Drive myself.

It happened alright with the blessing of the local ordinary, Bishop Seraphim and the Rector Mons. Guerra. It is known that it is not the first time that it has happened at has happened as far back as the time Paul VI visited Fatima, in fact just before his visit.

With the security around the site there is no way anyone would get onto the Altar in the Apparitiion Chapel without permission. Just look at Fr Gruner!!

I have portugeuse TV here in my house and watched it on the RTP news. I have been to Fatima many times and actually call it my second home and so could tell that it was happening at Fatima alright.

I watched the Hindu family’s preparations at home praying to their Hindu Gods before the pilgrimage, their bus journey, their reception in Fatima, during which the Mons and the Bishop mentioned above were indeed present and allowed themselves to be dressed in the Hindu robes, although I did not see the traditional Mitre or Crozier offered to the Hindu priest to try out (!!). I saw the Hindu family bring a lovely bouquet of flowers to Our Ladys Apparition site very respectfully and then the Hindu Priest stand at the Altar of Sacrifice and chant something (Which I later discovered was a prayer for Peace) in Hindi.

It happened alright.

I was at first a little indifferent to it but if the shrine authorities have acted as the SPPX say they did when they tried to visit the site of the Apparitions and pray a Rosary of reparation, then I would be very annoyed indeed.

You know my next biggest worry about Fatima, is the new Church being built at the back of the sanctuary square. I am so worries that it will be awful. I just cringe each and every time I see the new Church at San Giovanni. Hopefully, it will not be as bad at Fatima.

Bishop Fellay’s homily during one of the Masses;

laportelatine.org/lpl/communic/audio/fatangl.mp3

[quote=Fergal]It happened alright with the blessing of the local ordinary, Bishop Seraphim and the Rector Mons. Guerra. It is known that it is not the first time that it has happened at has happened as far back as the time Paul VI visited Fatima, in fact just before his visit.

With the security around the site there is no way anyone would get onto the Altar in the Apparitiion Chapel without permission. Just look at Fr Gruner!!

I have portugeuse TV here in my house and watched it on the RTP news. I have been to Fatima many times and actually call it my second home and so could tell that it was happening at Fatima alright.

I watched the Hindu family’s preparations at home praying to their Hindu Gods before the pilgrimage, their bus journey, their reception in Fatima, during which the Mons and the Bishop mentioned above were indeed present and allowed themselves to be dressed in the Hindu robes, although I did not see the traditional Mitre or Crozier offered to the Hindu priest to try out (!!). I saw the Hindu family bring a lovely bouquet of flowers to Our Ladys Apparition site very respectfully and then the Hindu Priest stand at the Altar of Sacrifice and chant something (Which I later discovered was a prayer for Peace) in Hindi.

It happened alright.

I was at first a little indifferent to it but if the shrine authorities have acted as the SPPX say they did when they tried to visit the site of the Apparitions and pray a Rosary of reparation, then I would be very annoyed indeed.

You know my next biggest worry about Fatima, is the new Church being built at the back of the sanctuary square. I am so worries that it will be awful. I just cringe each and every time I see the new Church at San Giovanni. Hopefully, it will not be as bad at Fatima.
[/quote]

Shouldn’t have been allowed. The bishop and the rector should have been reprimanded. Does anyone know if they were or not? It STILL is not a reason to beat up on the Church by the SSPX.

Whatever you think of the SSPX, what they did today was noble, An Act of Reparation of the sacrilage that occurred at Fatima. Basically asking Our Lady for forgiveness of what happened at the shrine. They were not trying to beat up anybody. At least when they do something right, give them credit where credit is due.

Father Jean Violette, District Superior of Canada, made a similar point: “I’m sure if we would have worn turbans, the Rector would have greeted us at the Statue. We all would have held hands, and we would have had a nice ecumenical meeting.

[quote=Iohannes]cfnews.org/disrupt.htm

Some photos here:
laportelatine.org/lpl/communic/presse/2005/fatima/page.php

http://www.laportelatine.org/lpl/communic/presse/2005/fatima/fatima2/fat16.jpg
[/quote]

As it is reported, it seems like the nuns were very uncharitable. They should have allowed them to pray, it was the Rosary. But it seems like it is a little over the top. I can’t see nuns behaving in that manner.

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