Female Marines Not Required to Do One Pull Up


#1

cnsnews.com/news/article/barbara-boland/female-marines-not-required-do-1-pull

Anybody care to defend this? Why do we allow discrimination against out of shape males who might be on-par with women?


#2

Well, men are naturally stronger than women. The article even says that a majority of women failed the pull-ups, but only 1% of men failed. How is this fair? Do we just not let women into the Corps because they can't do a pull-up? Plus, women don't go into direct combat.


#3

What I took from this article was not so much the women aren't required to do 1 pull-up part, but that the men only have to do 3 pull-ups? 3? What the heck? A pull-up isn't that difficult for a physically fit man, you would think most Marines could easily do 10+. I guess not anymore.


#4

[quote="VeritasLuxMea, post:3, topic:349533"]
What I took from this article was not so much the women aren't required to do 1 pull-up part, but that the men only have to do 3 pull-ups? 3? What the heck? A pull-up isn't that difficult for a physically fit man, you would think most Marines could easily do 10+. I guess not anymore.

[/quote]

Pull ups use muscles that are not normally used; even by physically fit men. See:
livestrong.com/article/355476-why-are-pull-ups-hard-to-do/

The question is: do pull-ups use muscles that need to be developed to be a good Marine?

If not; who cares?


#5

[quote="bben15, post:2, topic:349533"]
Well, men are naturally stronger than women. The article even says that a majority of women failed the pull-ups, but only 1% of men failed. How is this fair? Do we just not let women into the Corps because they can't do a pull-up? Plus, women don't go into direct combat.

[/quote]

So why not allow men who can't do one pull up into the same jobs women currently occupy in the marines? Would that not be "equality"?


#6

[quote="VeritasLuxMea, post:3, topic:349533"]
What I took from this article was not so much the women aren't required to do 1 pull-up part, but that the men only have to do 3 pull-ups? 3? What the heck? A pull-up isn't that difficult for a physically fit man, you would think most Marines could easily do 10+. I guess not anymore.

[/quote]

Pull-ups aren't easy, in my experience. When my school did presidential fitness, the only person who could do more than one was a girl who was in gymnastics.

I kind of see what shockerfan is saying, but on the other hand, if they can afford to be picky, I guess they get to be picky. They are marines, after all. If it works better to have somewhat weaker women in support roles and stronger men in combat roles, I'll let them keep doing what works.


#7

[quote="gilliam, post:4, topic:349533"]
Pull ups use muscles that are not normally used; even by physically fit men. See:
livestrong.com/article/355476-why-are-pull-ups-hard-to-do/

The question is: do pull-ups use muscles that need to be developed to be a good Marine?

If not; who cares?

[/quote]

Those muscles are used to lift a fallen comrade or pull oneself over walls while carrying a 60 pack, among other things


#8

[quote="bben15, post:2, topic:349533"]
Well, men are naturally stronger than women. The article even says that a majority of women failed the pull-ups, but only 1% of men failed. How is this fair? Do we just not let women into the Corps because they can't do a pull-up? Plus, women don't go into direct combat.

[/quote]

-Female marines do go into direct combat. They can't hold Combat MOSs and can't be assigned as a combat marine, but they do still see combat.
-How is it "fair" that a female marine can be placed in charge of male marines and expect them to meet standards that she herself could not meet?
-How is it "fair" that while they have lower PT standards, their PT performance is counted as equal to a male Marine's PT performance on NCOERs, OERs, school slots, and promotion criteria? I have 50 cents and you have a dollar. A soda costs a dollar. The guy at the register let's me buy a soda for 50 cents and tells you to pay the full price. Fair?


#9

[quote="VeritasLuxMea, post:3, topic:349533"]
What I took from this article was not so much the women aren't required to do 1 pull-up part, but that the men only have to do 3 pull-ups? 3? What the heck? A pull-up isn't that difficult for a physically fit man, you would think most Marines could easily do 10+. I guess not anymore.

[/quote]

This really is suprising. I remember back in high school we were required to do pull ups and almost nobody couldn't do them at all. After doing it for a few months, ten was no big deal, and became mandatory for all but one or two. If one was reasonably fit (and they made us be fit) it wasn't at all odd to do 20 by the end of the school year.

Like anything else, though, there's a trick to it. If you extend your arms fully, you can't do very many. You came just short of doing that, keeping your elbows slightly bent at the bottom. It was like climbing the rope to the gym rafters, which were a long way up...somewhere between 20 and 30 feet. A good number of us could do it without using our legs at all, but again, if you didn't keep your elbows bent and your upper arm at around 90 degrees from your body as you went, you couldn't get very far.


#10

[quote="Ridgerunner, post:9, topic:349533"]
Like anything else, though, there's a trick to it. If you extend your arms fully, you can't do very many. You came just short of doing that, keeping your elbows slightly bent at the bottom. It was like climbing the rope to the gym rafters, which were a long way up...somewhere between 20 and 30 feet. A good number of us could do it without using our legs at all, but again, if you didn't keep your elbows bent and your upper arm at around 90 degrees from your body as you went, you couldn't get very far.

[/quote]

Great, now I learn this. :(


#11

[quote="estesbob, post:7, topic:349533"]
Those muscles are used to lift a fallen comrade or pull oneself over walls while carrying a 60 pack, among other things

[/quote]

There are two kinds of ordinary pullups; palm outward and palm inward. (I consider one-handed just a variation on one or the other of the two) I can see how sufficient strength to do either one would aid in a great number of demanding tasks.


#12

[quote="shockerfan, post:1, topic:349533"]
cnsnews.com/news/article/barbara-boland/female-marines-not-required-do-1-pull

Anybody care to defend this? Why do we allow discrimination against out of shape males who might be on-par with women?

[/quote]

IMHO, in jobs like this, where combat or the safety of others is involved (military, police, etc.), there should be no lowering of standards regardless of sex or any other criteria. You either meet the standards or you don't.

Three push-ups, quite frankly, is a very low standard that can be met by anyone in good physical shape, which a marine should be; male or female.


#13

[quote="oldcatholicguy, post:10, topic:349533"]
Great, now I learn this. :(

[/quote]

:rotfl: I learned about the rope thing watching a guy do it. He was enormously strong and could get up that rope like greased lightning. It was mildly surprising to everybody, but not terribly because everybody knew how strong he was. But I noticed how he did it, and the next time it was my turn to climb the rope, I surprised myself and others by doing the very same thing. Some others learned the same trick, but it was surprising that not everyone did.

One of the worst mistakes anybody could make in doing pull ups was to jump to the bar and hang there for a second or two with arms fully extended. You needed to keep your elbows bent from the very first, and start on the upward pull the instant your hands grasped the bar. And doing the series quickly matters a lot. You're using primarily fast-twitch muscles doing it at all, and the sooner you get it over with, the better.

One-handed lifting of a lot of barbell weight was another trick. It was all balance and using your legs to "throw" the barbell first, then jump under it to lift it overhead with your legs. It was almost as easy to lift a heavy weight one-handed as it was to do it two-handed. But it sure made a good exhibition trick.


#14

[quote="Ridgerunner, post:13, topic:349533"]
:rotfl: I learned about the rope thing watching a guy do it. He was enormously strong and could get up that rope like greased lightning. It was mildly surprising to everybody, but not terribly because everybody knew how strong he was. But I noticed how he did it, and the next time it was my turn to climb the rope, I surprised myself and others by doing the very same thing. Some others learned the same trick, but it was surprising that not everyone did.

One of the worst mistakes anybody could make in doing pull ups was to jump to the bar and hang there for a second or two with arms fully extended. You needed to keep your elbows bent from the very first, and start on the upward pull the instant your hands grasped the bar. And doing the series quickly matters a lot. You're using primarily fast-twitch muscles doing it at all, and the sooner you get it over with, the better.

One-handed lifting of a lot of barbell weight was another trick. It was all balance and using your legs to "throw" the barbell first, then jump under it to lift it overhead with your legs. It was almost as easy to lift a heavy weight one-handed as it was to do it two-handed. But it sure made a good exhibition trick.

[/quote]

Wow. Well, that explains how the gymnast girl was able to meet the requirements easily, while none of the boys in my class were able to do more than 2 or 3. Nobody else had any idea what they were doing.

If it's that much easier with the proper technique, I agree that marines of both genders should be expected to do much more than one or three. I mean, the presidential fitness requirements for schools have 10+ for both genders, so it shouldn't be an impossible task for soldiers. :shrug:


#15

To me, it is NOT okay that females are exempted from this. If women want to do the same job, they need to be able to do the same requirements as the men. This is wrong.

We should not give women preferential treatment.

I can't help but think some confuse equality with sameness. Women and men are equal but NOT the same.

Men ARE typically MUCH stronger. Let's not delude ourselves.


#16

The Marines used to be really such are a hard thing to join. Now, NO pull ups?


#17

Why do we allow discrimination against out of shape males who might be on-par with women.

It is the Marine Corp. if one was entering the marines it would be common sense to get in shape or train before leaving for boot camp.


#18

[quote="oldcatholicguy, post:8, topic:349533"]
-Female marines do go into direct combat. They can't hold Combat MOSs and can't be assigned as a combat marine, but they do still see combat.
-How is it "fair" that a female marine can be placed in charge of male marines and expect them to meet standards that she herself could not meet?
-How is it "fair" that while they have lower PT standards, their PT performance is counted as equal to a male Marine's PT performance on NCOERs, OERs, school slots, and promotion criteria? I have 50 cents and you have a dollar. A soda costs a dollar. The guy at the register let's me buy a soda for 50 cents and tells you to pay the full price. Fair?

[/quote]

Actually they can be assigned to a combat unit now... They just can't hold the MOS. But a female radio operator can be assigned to an infantry unit. We also have teams made up entirely of women who go into very dangerous situations, their are called Female Engagement Teams, or FEPs. Their job is to question Muslim women, because they are able to speak to them without a man present.


#19

[quote="adawgj, post:17, topic:349533"]
Why do we allow discrimination against out of shape males who might be on-par with women.

It is the Marine Corp. if one was entering the marines it would be common sense to get in shape or train before leaving for boot camp.

[/quote]

We don't have many out of shape men or women in my experience. The Marine Corps does everything in their power to get rid of them or get them in shape, regardless of their sex. And yes, women only have to do a dead lift hang for their PFT. But men only have to do 2 pull-ups to pass, so if you can't handle that, you shouldn't be there. I've tried the dead hang for the 2 minutes required of a female marine, and honestly, two pull-ups is way easier.


#20

[quote="SeannyM, post:19, topic:349533"]
We don't have many out of shape men or women in my experience. The Marine Corps does everything in their power to get rid of them or get them in shape, regardless of their sex. And yes, women only have to do a dead lift hang for their PFT. But men only have to do 2 pull-ups to pass, so if you can't handle that, you shouldn't be there. I've tried the dead hang for the 2 minutes required of a female marine, and honestly, two pull-ups is way easier.

[/quote]

then why not make the requirements the same? Why allow one group to have lesser requirements? Why discriminate against guys who could meet the women's standards?


DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.