Feminology: Two "Hypothetical" Situations


#1

These are two real life situations with two real people, so we're talking about something that isn't an impossible combination, but I'm taking them as hypotheticals. I have a feasible if unimpressive theory on their meaning. So here it goes:

  1. FACTS: Man and woman make acquaintance in a Hollywoodesque scenario (one could earn some bucks on film rights). Off the bat they go to places generally once a week (not sure but it might even have been suggested that it could become more frequent), which is never called a date and it's always during daytime, but they both dress up and we're talking about summer time, and so on, they kiss on the cheek like old friends since the second time they ever see each other at all (which is a cinema non-date, basically), and they keep e-mail contact. In said e-mails, she uses a diminution of his name, which is longer than the name itself and does not really beg to be used, not even in family situations (and would sound wrong from a man that weren't a father or uncle or so). She's interested in keeping the thing going and she suggests further places to go to (opera etc.).

However, she stiffened under his touch one time, which he noticed and wondered what the reason was (it was relatively gentle and innocent - he tried to put a palm on her waist or something of the kind). He interpreted it as a surprisingly bad sign. He also noticed the one time she touched his hand by accident, she apologised.

Fast forward, the woman will later have claimed it had all been on a friends level and apologised if she had sent some other signals etc., though she will at the same time have admitted the necessity to change the rules from a more than friends but less than a couple (inconsistency).

MY THEORY is she didn't fully know what she was speaking when saying the above. The guy correctly spotted an attraction pattern (investing unproportional amounts of time and friendly interest, seeming a bit under a spell initially, the way the going out started right away, the diminution, the kissing on the cheek which she didn't normally do with friends, the dressing up but at the same time making herself feel cosy while talking to him, her picking outfits that could hardly have been supposed not to expound a feminine side of her or in some cases a bit flirty in a tasteful way, her appreciating how he told her any time of day or night was good if she wanted to call and she said she'd take note of that etc.), which she didn't ultimately want to act on, however, and she thought he couldn't have spotted anything because she masked it well enough, so he was projecting things independently from her. Her admission that it had been more than friends but less than a couple happened under less intense and less direct fire (he was using the limited access tactic as a weapon when said conversation ensued).

ON THE OTHER HAND, it's possible that the guy totally misread her, but that would have required an impressive sequence of accidents and he was quite adept at reading body language, not to mention a smart fella, so I don't think he could have been so completely misguided. If someone came to me for advice describing the woman's behaviour, I'd tell him there were no way the woman weren't interested, on the same signs, though being somewhat puzzled at her going stiff like that.

  1. FACTS: Same man, same woman, one year later or so. It's an accidental meeting and she's the one more interested in catching up. They're on the same bus for a short while and they know they'll be parting soon. She inexplicably offers unsolicited information about her plans for the rest of the day, which basically resembles a short but precise schedule with free room and she seems rather probing. The guy thinks she's giving him a hint and he plays stupid because he doesn't want to play by her rules.

MY THEORY is that it probably wasn't an accident that she gave him unsolicited information about her day with some room in it. She probably wanted him to make some offer in return, although chances are that it was just a conversation opening in friendly interest, or perhaps a diplomatic opening for a friendly hanging out.

What are your views? In return, I could analyse a thing or two for you, should you be needing that. ;)


#2

Hi Cevalier, When my son was a teenager in high school he met a girl who was truly attracted to him but she didn’t want to be touched, hugged or kissed.

Since I was working at UCLA as a counselor for students my son asked what I thought was the problem.

I advised him to let go of her because the girl had most likely been abused in her life.
Eventhough she truly liked him she just didn’t want to be touched. I felt sorry for her
but at the same time… my son needed a girl friend who didn’t have a serious mental problem.

Regarding your question… I think that gal also has a problem relating to men. She may be attracted to that man very much but for some reason she doesn’t like being touched.
She doesn’t really enjoy being touched. She prefers to hang out with guys just as friends without touching. This is her problem… She truly wants to get close with the guy but deep down she has been tramatized in some way. For example; her parents may have told her to never touch a guy because it may lead to sex. I heard of a young girl who became a lesbian because her father had told her to stay away from guys… but he didn’t warn her to stay away from girls. So the girl got messed up in her brain.

I think that gal is messed up mentally for some reason. The guy decided to give up the friendship because he knew she was not going to allow him to get really close to him so why bother to start something that can never lead to a true touching friendship.

My advise is to never get close to someone who doesn’t enjoy being touched, hugged or kissed. It is really sad that there are people like that in our world. LaLucia


#3

If you have to ask her permission to be “her Man”, then you aren’t her Man.

The point is that YOU cause the result you are seeking. She yielded opportunity. The male didn’t go to the trouble to capture her heart, so she responded with, “this must be just a friend thing, because I’m not feelin it. Either he isn’t interested or is incapable.”

The male in that scenario shouldn’t be spreading his genes.


#4

You are watching far too many films.

Be honest and open with women. Marry the Catholic woman who is honest and open in return.


#5

Your judgements are as unwelcome as they are unbased, James. For the record, That Name, I don't watch any films. This topic is a discussion of human nature. It has nothing to do with whether I'm honest and little to do with what a man should seek in a woman. I would ask the future posters to keep this in mind - we are *only *talking about the possible meaning of the woman's behaviour in the two scenarios and not about the man or about me, as the topic says.


#6

Be a man and ask her out. She is giving you SO much information…more than what you need to say “Can we go on a date?”

About stiffing under your touch…she may not of been prepared and she may have been a bit resentful…you’re doing things with her frequently…leading her on and yet you’ve not asked her out? If you’re a friend…just a friend…you shouldn’t be touching her waist, butt or anything.

As a female if a male friend touched me in a dating sort of way and we weren’t dating I think I’d be nervous and stiffen, too. I don’t get the “inbetween dating and friends” line on one hand, but on the other I do. I’m interested in a guy I know and not some other guys from the group (although they are quite hansome, too). I’m so glad when he sits next to me, gives me a hug, laughs at my jokes…etc…I’d be happy if he touched me more while I figure out wither or not he’d like to date me. If one of the other guys did, whom I’m clearly not into, I’d probably be weirded out.

As far as touching your hand. People who respect personal space are good…I’m not saying affection is bad but if she accidentally touched your hand, half the response is from you and you may have been giving out cues that you didn’t (or wouldn’t) like it.


#7

Quick note, not all women who do not like to be touched have been abused or have mental issues! I don't like to be touched, there are times when it is even painful to be touched - that is more a physical problem than a mental one! This has been going on since I was born so obviously no mental issues can be attributed to this!

Okay, now that I have said the above, Chevalier, I seem to remember you talking about this scenario before, the woman who seems to be leading the man on and then saying, "No, this is not what I meant." Perhaps the woman has mixed feelings and isn't sure herself hence, the mixed signals :D.

As to the offer for help in figuring things out, I think I have far more experience than you having been married for soon to be 31 years ;) and having known each other for 33 years. That being said, if I think you could help me I will ask :thumbsup:


#8

[quote="purplesunshine, post:6, topic:180924"]
Be a man and ask her out. She is giving you SO much information...more than what you need to say "Can we go on a date?"

[/quote]

Why is everyone presuming I'm asking for dating advice *despite *what the topic says? Can't you all take my word on the fact that I'm analysing a romantic situation between two people out of curiosity? The people in the stories haven't even talked since #2 occurred. This is no one's current dating situation and no one's needing advice. I just want perspectives on the situation because it's one of the few situations I've witnessed taking place between a man and a woman that I can't explain. For the record, I did say the woman told the man it was just friends and there was nothing romantic at all. However, it's valuable input for me that you say the woman was interested on the basis of the signs. That's my impression as well, though I doubt she would have pulled off a flat lie - for one thing she was a religious Protestant, so she would've had difficulty lying, for the other, the guy would've noticed, I think. If he noticed she wasn't feeling comfortable when he touched her, I think he would've noticed if she had been lying or making things up.

[quote="Brenda_V, post:7, topic:180924"]
Quick note, not all women who do not like to be touched have been abused or have mental issues! I don't like to be touched, there are times when it is even painful to be touched - that is more a physical problem than a mental one! This has been going on since I was born so obviously no mental issues can be attributed to this!

Okay, now that I have said the above, Chevalier, I seem to remember you talking about this scenario before, the woman who seems to be leading the man on and then saying, "No, this is not what I meant." Perhaps the woman has mixed feelings and isn't sure herself hence, the mixed signals :D.

As to the offer for help in figuring things out, I think I have far more experience than you having been married for soon to be 31 years ;) and having known each other for 33 years. That being said, if I think you could help me I will ask :thumbsup:

Hah, that was a good one. ;) I probably ill-phrased myself. I was looking at the whole thing from an analytical point of view, not trying to cast myself as a relationship guru or anything like that. My expertise is more along the lines of "whodunnit" or monkey business in negotiations or people lying, although I do chime in if I spot some of the familiar behaviours in romantic situations people ask about. It's not really that far from negotiations, anyway, except the emotional factors are more complex.

[/quote]


#9

[quote="chevalier, post:8, topic:180924"]
Why is everyone presuming I'm asking for dating advice *despite *what the topic says? Can't you all take my word on the fact that I'm analysing a romantic situation between two people out of curiosity? The people in the stories haven't even talked since #2 occurred. This is no one's current dating situation and no one's needing advice. I just want perspectives on the situation because it's one of the few situations I've witnessed taking place between a man and a woman that I can't explain. For the record, I did say the woman told the man it was just friends and there was nothing romantic at all. However, it's valuable input for me that you say the woman was interested on the basis of the signs. That's my impression as well, though I doubt she would have pulled off a flat lie - for one thing she was a religious Protestant, so she would've had difficulty lying, for the other, the guy would've noticed, I think. If he noticed she wasn't feeling comfortable when he touched her, I think he would've noticed if she had been lying or making things up.

[/quote]

My point was that the "guy" seems to be curious in what she means. If he's curious he should just grow some and ask her. Even if she said that they were "just friends". She could of said that to check if the guy was interested. I've done that on occasion, hoping the guy would say "I hoped we were more than just friends." And one guy did. It didn't work out but my point still stands. Its up to the guy to be a guy. Girls shouldn't have to do all the work of initiating a relationship, which I feel like we often have to do now a days.

Infact, I'm really tired of having shy guys who need to be asked out, even if they REALLY like me and they make it quite clear. To me its a recipe for failure and I don't ever plan on asking out a guy again. Guys need to be leaders.

Religious protestant aside...lying (or misleading) isn't THAT hard for anyone.


#10

Darn. I got caught in the 20 minutes time-limit. I was basically saying I agreed not everyone who didn’t like touching had been abused - actually, I don’t like touching that much and I wasn’t molested as a kid.

I would also agree stuff was quite mixed up - just from the “text” of it - she told him two conflicting things, i.e. that they were only friends since the beginning and that their acquaintance was on a level more than friends but less than a couple. This is kinda in line with my theory, though I’m operating on the presumption she wasn’t lying (she came from a religious Protestant family, so I doubt she would’ve lied and if he noticed she was being flirty or the opposite of it, he would’ve spotted her making things up during their “serious conversation”). BTW, the thing happened years ago and the two people aren’t even on talking terms any more–she found herself a boyfriend and he discovered she wasn’t his type after all–so there’s no need for any advice for them. :wink:


#11

I can't speak for other women, but this kind of thing has happened to me again and again. I will meet a guy, I will be attracted to him and excited about him, I will want to know more about him, want him to be attracted to me and so on.

Then as I get to know more about him I will come to realize that this guy is not who I originally thought he was, that we're not compatible at all even though it originally seemed we were, that he has some annoying traits that initially went unnoticed.

In short, the attraction dies as quickly as it began and it becomes convenient to say that we were just friends to begin with. It's just a way to avoid drama, and "break up".

I wouldn't read too much into touching though. Another poster said it was said that there were people who don't like touching in our world :confused:, but some people just get anxious. I can be really into a guy and tense up if he touches me because of the sudden adrenaline rush. Then some people have their ideas about what is appropriate, especially if they are faithful Catholics.


#12

[quote="that_name, post:4, topic:180924"]
You are watching far too many films.

Be honest and open with women. Marry the Catholic woman who is honest and open in return.

[/quote]

*This, I agree with. *


#13

Thread over. It was a bad idea to start it in the first place. I’ve never seen a thread go bad so fast here. Thanks everyone for participation and I’d be grateful if a moderator could please delete this discussion.


#14

Why do you find the thread to be 'bad,' chev? Looks like a decent discussion is underway, no? :confused:


#15

*LOL, In my reply...my response was for the second part of what that poster stated...not that you're watching too many films. LOL! Sorry about that, I just noticed that I captured the whole post. :blush::p

When I read ''you'' in people's posts, I always interpret it to mean ''you'' in a general sense...I think that's how that was implied. *


#16

Nope. I was asking for a discussion of two examples of human behaviour. In this case a woman who had a strange situation with a man. I offered my explanation and asked to see other possible ones in order to learn some perspectives because the subject interests me. In turn, I got lots of feedback on the behaviour of the person *other *than the one whose behaviour I was asking for ideas about.


#17

[quote="chevalier, post:16, topic:180924"]
Nope. I was asking for a discussion of two examples of human behaviour. In this case a woman who had a strange situation with a man. I offered my explanation and asked to see other possible ones in order to learn some perspectives because the subject interests me. In turn, I got lots of feedback on the behaviour of the person *other *than the one whose behaviour I was asking for ideas about.

[/quote]

lol, you MUST be more specific next time, chev. :D


#18

well, in an attempt to de-derail the thread, :stuck_out_tongue: I agree with your theory. I think she simply didn’t know her own mind, or rather maybe that she didn’t want to make up her mind definitely. She enjoyed the attention, clearly, but realized after a time that she didn’t want anything else out of the relationship. I don’t think she was intentionally deceiving the man, just simply carrying on with something that felt good, until it didn’t feel good anymore. and I bet the man didn’t have anything definite to do with making it not feel good anymore. That’s the nature of feelings… they can be very transient.
So when they met again unexpectedly, the lady remembered how nice the attention was, and made it clear that such attention would again be welcome. And I don’t blame the man for not wanting to get into that again. It sounds like a pretty dead end relationship. It wasn’t growing at all.


#19

[quote="chevalier, post:1, topic:180924"]
These are two real life situations with two real people, so we're talking about something that isn't an impossible combination, but I'm taking them as hypotheticals. I have a feasible if unimpressive theory on their meaning. So here it goes:

  1. FACTS: Man and woman make acquaintance in a Hollywoodesque scenario (one could earn some bucks on film rights). Off the bat they go to places generally once a week (not sure but it might even have been suggested that it could become more frequent), which is never called a date and it's always during daytime, but they both dress up and we're talking about summer time, and so on, they kiss on the cheek like old friends since the second time they ever see each other at all (which is a cinema non-date, basically), and they keep e-mail contact. In said e-mails, she uses a diminution of his name, which is longer than the name itself and does not really beg to be used, not even in family situations (and would sound wrong from a man that weren't a father or uncle or so). She's interested in keeping the thing going and she suggests further places to go to (opera etc.).

However, she stiffened under his touch one time, which he noticed and wondered what the reason was (it was relatively gentle and innocent - he tried to put a palm on her waist or something of the kind). He interpreted it as a surprisingly bad sign. He also noticed the one time she touched his hand by accident, she apologised.

Fast forward, the woman will later have claimed it had all been on a friends level and apologised if she had sent some other signals etc., though she will at the same time have admitted the necessity to change the rules from a more than friends but less than a couple (inconsistency).

MY THEORY is she didn't fully know what she was speaking when saying the above. The guy correctly spotted an attraction pattern (investing unproportional amounts of time and friendly interest, seeming a bit under a spell initially, the way the going out started right away, the diminution, the kissing on the cheek which she didn't normally do with friends, the dressing up but at the same time making herself feel cosy while talking to him, her picking outfits that could hardly have been supposed not to expound a feminine side of her or in some cases a bit flirty in a tasteful way, her appreciating how he told her any time of day or night was good if she wanted to call and she said she'd take note of that etc.), which she didn't ultimately want to act on, however, and she thought he couldn't have spotted anything because she masked it well enough, so he was projecting things independently from her. Her admission that it had been more than friends but less than a couple happened under less intense and less direct fire (he was using the limited access tactic as a weapon when said conversation ensued).

ON THE OTHER HAND, it's possible that the guy totally misread her, but that would have required an impressive sequence of accidents and he was quite adept at reading body language, not to mention a smart fella, so I don't think he could have been so completely misguided. If someone came to me for advice describing the woman's behaviour, I'd tell him there were no way the woman weren't interested, on the same signs, though being somewhat puzzled at her going stiff like that.

  1. FACTS: Same man, same woman, one year later or so. It's an accidental meeting and she's the one more interested in catching up. They're on the same bus for a short while and they know they'll be parting soon. She inexplicably offers unsolicited information about her plans for the rest of the day, which basically resembles a short but precise schedule with free room and she seems rather probing. The guy thinks she's giving him a hint and he plays stupid because he doesn't want to play by her rules.

MY THEORY is that it probably wasn't an accident that she gave him unsolicited information about her day with some room in it. She probably wanted him to make some offer in return, although chances are that it was just a conversation opening in friendly interest, or perhaps a diplomatic opening for a friendly hanging out.

What are your views? In return, I could analyse a thing or two for you, should you be needing that. ;)

[/quote]

*After rereading, and now understanding your question...here are the possibilities that I have taken away from this:

1) She could be a tease...likes the attention, but doesn't want to commit, or actually call herself something more than a friend.

2) She is immature, and doesn't know how to just be honest and open. She has been taught that girls have to play silly, coy guessing games with men in order to keep their interest. Have I ever played like this with men? Yes. But, I was immature back then. :p

3) The man completely misread the woman's intentions and actions, and she IS this friendly with many people, not just him.

4) She is interested in him, but I revert back to #2 a bit, because she seems to be playing games.

4.5) (not a full #5 since #4 takes #2 in part) ...she does like the guy, she likes to flirt and be playful...but...she doesn't feel that touching at that stage is appropriate.*

It could be those, or a combination thereof. Just my two cents.


#20

[quote="Consecrated, post:18, topic:180924"]
well, in an attempt to de-derail the thread, :p I agree with your theory. I think she simply didn't know her own mind, or rather maybe that she didn't want to make up her mind definitely. She enjoyed the attention, clearly, but realized after a time that she didn't want anything else out of the relationship. I don't think she was intentionally deceiving the man, just simply carrying on with something that felt good, until it didn't feel good anymore. and I bet the man didn't have anything definite to do with making it not feel good anymore. That's the nature of feelings... they can be very transient.
So when they met again unexpectedly, the lady remembered how nice the attention was, and made it clear that such attention would again be welcome. And I don't blame the man for not wanting to get into that again. It sounds like a pretty dead end relationship. It wasn't growing at all.

[/quote]

And...I agree with this, too. (this could be my #6) ;)


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