Fessing up

why is it then when it comes to defending the church from accusations other religions generally are always named as doing it worse not to mention the aura I sense that those who accuse catholic of doing something bad are just wriiten of as having an anti-catholic vendetta. the church doesnt sin but the member do sometimes while claiming to do so with the authority of the church, we have to accept that but why is it that the way mosts apologetic answer dont really help? they just fan the flames

Most veteran apologists understand that it is important to acknowledge the shortcomings of the Church right up front.

However, there is nothing wrong with going on to point out relevant facts which often include the inconvenient truth that other Christian groups suffer from the same or even greater levels of the sin in question than the Catholic Church.

That’s pretty much your cue that such individuals are not interested in rational discussion. So it’s :rolleyes: time to move on.

Also, a lot of people hate the Truth because it inconveniences their own personal selfishness. :yup:

That would be a bit easier to read if you would use capital letters at the start of your sentence. We old folks would appreciate it.

The weeds will always be growing among the wheat.

A couple of pertinent questions: Is this really the case or do you have that impression because you tend to see this when you read apologetics? :slight_smile: And who is doing it? Professional apologists or amateurs?

I’ve encountered few Catholic professional apologists who have used such tactics. Those that have usually come to regret it. In my experience, the greater majority of professional Catholic apologists not use such tactics. In part (and hopefully mostly) from charity, but also because it is counterproductive. If all one does is diss others faith communities how is that helpful to anyone? No good/effective apologist does it. No doubt amateurs, thinking they are scoring points do it, but it’s bad apologetics to engage in such behavior, besides being unChristian.

It’s one thing to point out deficiences in other theological systems and quite another to call others bad for holding to them. I haven’t seen any good apologists do this, Catholic or otherwise. We need to point out errors in beliefs, but we are not in the business of judging hearts for what they believe.

So would a lot of us young folks! :smiley:

I refer to this as playground tactics…

Oh yeah, my dad can beat up YOUR dad…

Or My mom said she heard your uncle did…

And in the end nothing about the actual faith in question has been clarified, all that has been done is to again demonstrate the foibles of human nature.

It is SO common and so easy for discussions of faith to get side tracked that way, or for people to start commenting on the spelling, grammar or color of shoelaces the other person is wearing.

I think it’s important right up front for everyone to decide whether they are going to discuss the teachings of the faith, or the personal choices of various individuals. Many times these things get derailed because of a lack of ground rules.

True, there are people who generally spread lies about the church and they must be called out on it. We also though need to state only what is fact and more importantly, we need to distance ourselves from this “weighing scale” behavior, for example saying that Catholics executed people in the name of the church but protestants executed more thus why come after us?
Nobody ever wants to hear that as a defense of the church during the medieval age. When it comes to talking about the issues where the church has failed to act or acted wrong (e.g. slavery, inquisition times, the Rwanda genocide…) I say the same thing that a priest instructed me say, its a simple method, acknowledge what was done wrong, make a sincere apology but also state what is being done to prevent the problem from happening again and promote reconciliation. There should be no mention of “this was not only a catholic problem!”.
I leave the confession of sins of various churches to their adherents, if the Anglicans do not want to acknowledge that King Henry founded their church on the blood of many martyrs who am I to say anything when the history of the catholic church in some places is stained with blood of innocent people, but I acknowledge that.
This is what Pope St. John Paul II did and that is why when you hear non Catholics speak of him most of the time they speak of him as a greatly respectable and honorable man!
So we Catholics need to follow his example and drop the "the whole world is against us because afterwards we wonder “why are so many people leaving”. And then the generalization comes in that “oh they just couldn’t handle the truth”. I know a priest who if he knows of any ex catholic he will talk to them to find out why they left and see what he can do to reconcile them with the church, and it really works! In his parish, people know they can approach him with anything even if you want to criticize the hierarchy from top to bottom, he will listen and explain and defend Catholicism to them and give them the real truth not the rumors that fly around. After talking to him your dissatisfaction with the church has changed from “I hate what these people are doing” to “I need to do this and others will do the same” and that is what we should do.
If we the catholic church have the truth then we should take it to the people in our actions not words.However when we generalize and say all non-Catholics are against us… the spirit of ecumenism dies before it is even birthed.
I know of a man who accused a priest of getting his wife pregnant and everyone was like “oh that guy is a protestant so its just an attack on the church!” though one priest, (I shan’t say the name of any priest I know on this forum) told me that the attitude to those who come out to call out something wrong in the church or with their members is all wrong instead of getting mad, we should thank them they are doing great service for God and the church.
When I heard I started researching into all the groups that fight for the sexually abused of priests and others wronged by church clergy and despite what I was told often from social media posts and articles online they are not all just trying to taint the church some of them are honestly pursuing Justice (these sentiments did get me kicked out of a Catholic debate group but hey? :blush:). Next think if Catholic answers is really considered as a site for professional Apologetics, then we honestly need to review our answers to some questions here.

Just a clarification–CAF has professional apologists, but average posters aren’t professionals but rather are Catholics with varying degrees of knowledge and skill in apologetics, IOW, we’re amateurs not professionals. CAF is primaritly a discussion site in which ordinary people discuss the teachings of the Church with one another. The professional apologists generally reserve their replies to the Ask An Apologist forum. So, you are going to read all sorts of opinions here. The moderators do their best to keep the discussion civil but some people still post to score points (or at least think they are), others are overly sensitive, and still others are just flat out wrong. So, don’t go by anything and everything written on CAf. Rather all who post and read the posts need some discernment as to who seems to know what he is talking about and who is doing it in charity. :slight_smile:

Concur. Specifics would be appreciated as well.

(Not too many details, jsut enough to know what someone is talking about).

@ OP:

FWIW, I don’t think most apologists do what * you alleged they do.*

This>>>

Well said:thumbsup:

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