Final straw for me to leave Catholicism


I no longer believe the Catholic teachings on its supernatural founding by Jesus, and about many other things.

I do believe a god exists, but there are Universalist and Episcopal Churches near me which I will be checking out. …

Lastly, Jesus is Love. Gay men raping children isn’t love. Yet THOUSANDS of times it happened, and bishops and cardinals all over are complicit, half gay themselves most likely, I have many other issues but for now I’m going to just call myself “theist.”

Oh and I think Scripture prophesied this event of the Catholic Church having a catastrophic collapse:
Isaiah 1:4-8
Woe to the sinful nation,
a people whose guilt is great,
a brood of evildoers,
children given to corruption!
They have forsaken the Lord;
they have spurned the Holy One of Israel
and turned their backs on him.

5 Why should you be beaten anymore?
Why do you persist in rebellion?
Your whole head is injured,
your whole heart afflicted.
6 From the sole of your foot to the top of your head
there is no soundness—
only wounds and welts
and open sores,
not cleansed or bandaged
or soothed with olive oil.

7 Your country is desolate,
your cities burned with fire;
your fields are being stripped by foreigners
right before you,
laid waste as when overthrown by strangers.
8 Daughter Zion is left
like a shelter in a vineyard,
like a hut in a cucumber field,
like a city under siege.

"From the sole of the Church’s foot (its duoceses) to the top of its head (the papacy), there is no soundness (virtue) but open wounds and welts (from the sins lashing the Body of Christ)

If anyone is interested, I could write some threads which show some great Biblical prophesies which can be interpreted to describe the Church today.


Don’t go fringe evangelical on us. Don’t need more prophecies about the Church being the whore of Babylon.



I hope you see your error and come back.


Don’t get smarky with me, I’m in no mood.

The prophecies I refer to are prophecies about the falling away of faith from God’s people and him punishing them in turn.


Does that make the Catholic church any less true?


De jure, no.

De facto, yes.


GOP Catholics and stuffy old white rich men are a big reason I’m leaving also.


And a few verses later God’s promises to restore her, Daughter Zion, the Church.

Granted, these concern the nation of Judah around Isaiah’s time, but history does often rhyme. We have here a promise of God’s faithfulness to his covenant and commitment to Daughter Zion even as she sins.

Lastly, Jesus is Love. Gay men raping children isn’t love.

Do you think there are those among us who disagree? There have ever been sinners in the Church. It is its teaching on faith and morals and perseverence that is assured, not any sort of impeccability. I am very sorry that these grave sins of some clergy have hurt so many directly and indirectly. I’ll pray for healing for all, and that you find your way. And that the Church find hers.


So, basically a small fraction of the world’s Catholics?


I mean, that’s at least a logically consistent reason to leave Catholicism, if you don’t believe the Church was founded by Christ. It’s better than someone leaving because they dislike Father So-and-So or the music is dull or whatever.

I have to ask, though, why not Eastern Orthodoxy? It’s at least closer than universalism.

I get that you’re going through a crisis right now and your head is probably spinning, so I’m not going to try to talk you into or out of anything. Just know that I’m praying for you regardless.


“God’s people”…


Despite what EO say, I’m not Russian or Greek, so I’d be a weird fit…


That’s a common myth. Orthodox churches are not as ethnic as many would like to believe.





We’re all weird fits, really, in the Catholic Church. This really is an odd menagerie of broken toys. But here we are.

We’ll miss you. I’ll miss ya. And I’ll pray for you generally and for you to fumble your way back, just like we all have to from time to time.


I’d certainly put that before my eternal salvation as well. I think I’ll follow you out the door.


Whatever, it’s their ability to not be compassionate or caring which makes me despise them.

I truly despise FOX/GOP/MAGA types… …

It’s not just the Church I wanna leave i wanna leave this nightmarish dystopia of Trumps America.


So it’s political?

Can you explain to us more about why you want to leave?


What’s most important is your relationship with God, forget about all the chaos happening around you everyone has to face God on judgement day. May each be judged by his/her own actions.

“Then many will fall away, and they will betray one another and hate one another. And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. And because of the increase of lawlessness, the love of many will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.”

Matthew 24:10 -13


Please convince me why the Catholic Church that has existed since Apostolic Times is wrong but that Protestantism which arose 1500 years after Christ founded His Church and which is now split in to tens of thousands of denominations is right.

What happens in Protestantism is you are free to believe what you want to believe and if you do not agree with the ecclesial community you belong to you can go off and start your own. That is why there are so many Protestant ecclesial communities.

If you think that all members of Protestant ecclesial communities are sinless then you are in for a very rude awakening.

Sinners in the Church does not make the Church less true. If there were no sinners Our Lord would not have been crucified for our sake.

The Catholic Church has been through far worse and survived.

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