Final straw for me to leave Catholicism


#81

That’s patently false. Gay people on average have 5-6 times the number of sexual partners than straight people. No, it doesn’t mean all gay people have less self-control, but on average they do.


(see table 2)


#82

All protestant churches have their origin in Catholicism so if Catholicism is not divinely founded then neither are Protestants.

The Church should be judged not on its members who fail to live up to its standards but by those who best exemplify those standards. This is the ad hominum fallacy

To reference one of the staff apologists, we should first and foremost look for biblical prophecies to be fulfilled withing a few generatios of their delivery that is not to say that it may not also apply now, but only in as much as human history keeps repeating itself.


#83

Entirely irrelevant. Self-control has nothing to do with how many partners you have had. Self-control has to do with being abusive, controlling impure urges. A gay person and a straight person are both tempted to commit abusive acts at the same amount. It does not matter if a priest is straight or gay, abuse will happen when it happens.

There are some excellent priests who are gay and some terrible priests who are straight.

Girls were abused by priests too, saying it’s only a gay issue denies the dignity and suffering of female victims


#84

Then self-restraint has nothing to do with self-control.


#85

Self-restraint is self-control. They are synonymous.

Are you saying a straight male who has had 10 girlfriends in his life lacks self-control?


#86

Then you’re conceding the argument, because self-restraint is what dictates how many partners you have, since self-restraint is what dictates whether you cave to your lustful desires.


#87

What our priests do aren´t representative for the moral teachings of the Church.
They are making it harder for people to stay in the Church, and certainly putting judgment upon themselves. Remember that they are going to be accountable for what THEY did and didn´t do - we are going to be held accountable for what WE ourselves did and didn´t do.

We as human beings aren´t going to be perfect while on this planet. I´m not defending what they did - because no human being with self-respect and integrity should ever do that. What they have done are gravely terrible and most of them should be laicized. But we can´t look past the fact that this is a problem connected to the society of today rather than only inside the Catholic Church. Only four or five weeks ago, 300 Baptist pastors were accused of sexual abuse.

So I´m afraid we will not find any perfect place in this world, no matter what Church we go to. The perfectness we are looking for belongs to Heaven.


#88

So having a girlfriend or boyfriend is “caving to lustful desires”. That’s really offensive


#89

For the sake of His Sorrowful Passion, Have mercy on us and on the whole world.


#90

Now you’re misrepresenting and creating strawman, not good.

Your post below was shown to be false with cited data. So you’d rather obfuscate than recognizing the error


#91

The Op is a fellow Christian who is hurting and needs assistance. He has life experiences that always made his responses richer, if only for the price he paid for them. Maybe this tangent can be addressed in another thread.


#92

Listen, dude: I like you as a poster. I agree with you more often than not. I’d want to have a beer with you in real life. But I think you should at least consider the possibility that you’re being a bit hysterical here. You seem to be spiraling a bit, both about Trump and gay priests. I think you need to sit back, go for a long walk, breathe, and just try to turn your brain off for a bit.


#93

Self control is related to abusing people. I have never said it is otherwise. You are saying self control has to do with having a partner. A priest who is gay has the ability to not abuse people just as much as a straight person. That is self control. I don’t know why you are talking about self control related to how many girlfriends you have had. If I have 5 girlfriends in my life as compared to 2, you are saying I lack self control


#94

Thanks for your service. May I ask where you served? We disagree on Trump but that is irrelevant to our love of America.


#95

That’s not because they’re gay. It’s because they’re men. If straight men could have casual sex as easily as gay men, they would. Women are the limiting factor here.


#96

I’m just a bear, but I approve this message. OP, you’ve been through some heavy stuff lately. Take a few minutes to breathe. A lot of what you are posting is logically contradicting itself as well as being a bit over the top.

Nobody here wants you to lose your faith, and we all have rotten times when other Catholics, including clergy, are just mega frustrating. At those times we are best off taking our frustration to Jesus directly. Church shopping doesn’t help because I guarantee you that every one of them has a basket of problems AND We have the Real Presence and Jesus as our founder, not King Henry VIII or whoever.


#97

Not all men would have casual sex, some men have morals. This thread is so hateful


#98

Obviously. We’re talking about averages here. Obviously there are plenty of chaste men, both gay and straight.


#99

Well, leaving the Church isn’t going to help you there.


#100

Do not leave Jesus because of Judas. Yes, there are many clerics in the Church who have done horrible things. There must be a change in how the Church deals with sexual abuse. The problem I see in your reasoning is that you believe that unless the Church is spotless with no scandal, then it cannot be the true Church. Yet we see that Peter denied Jesus three times, the disciples left Jesus when he was arrested in the garden of Gethsemane, and Judas brought the crowds unto our saviour.

Even from the beginning of Christianity, fallible men have done bad things that scandalized the Church, does this mean we jump ship?

Consider this story in the gospel of Mark:

36 And sending away the multitude, they take him even as he was in the ship: and there were other ships with him.

37 And there arose a great storm of wind, and the waves beat into the ship, so that the ship was filled.

38 And he was in the hinder part of the ship, sleeping upon a pillow; and they awake him, and say to him: Master, doth it not concern thee that we perish?

39 And rising up, he rebuked the wind, and said to the sea: Peace, be still. And the wind ceased: and there was made a great calm.

40 And he said to them: Why are you fearful? have you not faith yet? And they feared exceedingly: and they said one to another: Who is this (thinkest thou) that both wind and sea obey him?

Think of the wind and the waves as that of scandal, the boat as the Church, the disciples as the followers of Jesus, and Jesus is Jesus. What can we learn from this? We can learn that when scandal rocks the boat, and the disciples start to lose faith, we have to remember the words of our lord, "Why are you fearful? Have you not faith yet?

I know these scandals cause people to loose faith, that is what the devil wants. To hurt the bride of Christ so people will leave the Church which Christ founded and is the arc of salvation. But we must have faith in Christ, even when the strong winds and rising waves of scandal are upon us.

I pray you consider my words


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