final thread, so long and thank you.


#1

To all my friends I’ve met in the past month Nicene,Della, smitty, graywolf, ryanL and more. This will be my last thread/post
I wanted to say thank you to all who have shared with me I have learned a great deal about your beliefs/doctrine.
I started here wanting to learn more of what my son was being taught and I feel I have, so on this last thread I wanted to somewhat summarize it. So here I go…

I think the main issues most protestants have with the Catholic Church is in your Traditions, which in reality we all have.

The main one being Mary. Our opinion is she was immaculately conceived by the Holy Spirit, though a person born with sin just like us.
and she had other children as we know from the Scriptures.
We do honor her for her roll as a vessel. Though to us she is not a deity.

Another issue is transubstantiation
It is a theological argument that Scripture does not support, but Is not an area of contention.
Scripture tells us to have Communion in remembrance of his sacrifice.Though, there are those who believe based on
certain verses it becomes the literal body and blood of Christ. I understand.

Next is confession. The Bible says confess our sins one to another. But, only Jesus can forgive your sins, since it was
only Jesus who died for your sins. Catholics call priest conduits, I get it.

The Catholic Church clearly states salvation by faith in Jesus Christ alone. Most protestants don’t know this fact, I didn’t.

It seems though some preach you can do good works to earn your way into Heaven which Ephesians 2:8,9. states it is not so.
Some teach of the passage in James “faith without works is dead.” The fact is that passage was written to people who were already saved.

Good works do not save rather they are a product of salvation.

The Roman Catholic Church is a Christian Church and the core teachings of the Church are salvation by faith in Jesus Christ alone and the Bible as God’s Word.

Peace to All, I will miss the theological bantering as it was quite fun and enlightening.
May the Lord be with you all.

Martin.
My real name is Simon but you all would have had to much fun with that!


#2

Simon says, “Don’t worship Mary!” :wink:

So long. I hope it’s been fruitful. :thumbsup:


#3

God Bless. Maybe we’ll see you around here again sometime! :wink:

Jeanette


#4

Thanks Simon. Best of luck! I hope you’ll come back again when you begin RCIA :stuck_out_tongue: . Just kidding… But of course, you are always welcome in our Church.


#5

[quote=montanaman]Simon says, “Don’t worship Mary!” :wink:

So long. I hope it’s been fruitful. :thumbsup:
[/quote]

It has, thanks. I should have mentioned you as we have had our share of discussions. I really truely have a much greater understanding. You know I recently went to one of my protestant boards and saw people questioning Catholocism as a cult and it just made me shake my head :frowning: , I do get Catholocism! I sometimes wish the Catholics I know got it as well.


#6

[quote=myfavoritmartin]It has, thanks. I should have mentioned you as we have had our share of discussions. I really truely have a much greater understanding. You know I recently went to one of my protestant boards and saw people questioning Catholocism as a cult and it just made me shake my head :frowning: , I do get Catholocism! I sometimes wish the Catholics I know got it as well.
[/quote]

Can you do us a favor? When you see Catholicism attacked as a cult, will you try to clarify the mistaken beliefs that lead those people to that conclusion? That would be so great - especially because you have more credibility with them as a “fellow Protestant”. :thumbsup:

:blessyou:

You’ll be missed here!


#7

I’m not sure if this has been recommended to you or if you are already aware of it’s existence. Read, The Fourth Cup by Scott Hahn, it’s an easy find with a google search. Admittedly (by Hahn) it is not Catholic doctrine. However it is a good read and taught me a great deal.

Peace,
Mike


#8

[quote=Eden]Thanks Simon. Best of luck! I hope you’ll come back again when you begin RCIA :stuck_out_tongue: . Just kidding… But of course, you are always welcome in our Church.
[/quote]

Thanks Eden, should’ve mentioned you as well, I haven’t been swayed but certainly have learned and can defend you guys when some of the extremist try tearing you down.


#9

[quote=Mijoy2]I’m not sure if this has been recommended to you or if you are already aware of it’s existence. Read, The Fourth Cup by Scott Hahn, it’s an easy find with a google search. Admittedly (by Hahn) it is not Catholic doctrine. However it is a good read and taught me a great deal.

Peace,
Mike
[/quote]

Thanks I may check it out.


#10

Simon,

Thanks for stopping by, and please remember that you’re always welcome.

May God bless you and grant you peace all the days of your life,
RyanL


#11

[quote=myfavoritmartin]Thanks Eden, should’ve mentioned you as well, I haven’t been swayed but certainly have learned and can defend you guys when some of the extremist try tearing you down.
[/quote]

Thanks! :thumbsup: We need more Protestant friends out their defending us from these kinds of attacks.


#12

[quote=myfavoritmartin]We do honor her for her roll as a vessel.
[/quote]

St Mary became a bridge between heaven and earth as she gave birth to the Word made flesh–God the Son. She is the Ark of the New Covenant. Relegating her to a mere “vessel” seems a bit derogatory to me. We honor her because she is the mother of God. But of course you’ve been down this road before.:smiley:

God bless you and your son, and all your family and friends.

May the peace and love of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ be with you always!

Mickey


#13

[quote=RyanL]Simon,

Thanks for stopping by, and please remember that you’re always welcome.

May God bless you and grant you peace all the days of your life,
RyanL
[/quote]

Thanks Ryan.
P.S. you are a sharp cat and I really didn’t enjoy debating with you… That’s a compliment obviously!


#14

[quote=myfavoritmartin]Our opinion is she was immaculately conceived by the Holy Spirit, though a person born with sin just like us.
and she had other children as we know from the Scriptures.
[/quote]

Well, you would be wrong. It is of pronounced difficulty to control the insult one feels when reading such tripe, particularly when you erroneously claim that Scripture supports this nonsense. Go back and read Matthew 1:25 again, then do some study on the translation and meaning of the word “until” in the Greek. Further, you should also look into the names of the children of Mary of Cleophas.

To suggest that the one God especially chose of all His creation, the “vessel”, as you put it, would have been marked with the stain of sin is not only an offense to the Blessed Mother but a grave offense to God Himself. If you had not realized that before, now you have been made aware.

We do honor her for her roll as a vessel. Though to us she is not a deity.

If you can find me a Catholic who considers the Blessed Mother a “deity,” I will find you a Catholic who has not the faintest clue about his faith.

Another issue is transubstantiation
It is a theological argument that Scripture does not support, but Is not an area of contention.

Once more, you are twisting Scripture to suit your false notions. The sixth chapter of the Gospel of John long, long ago did away with your objections, as did Christ’s very firm, direct words (NOT “This is the symbol/representation/figure of My Body, but this IS My Body”), as did the early Church fathers and the letters of St. Paul, as did the various Eucharistic miracles, as did the revelations of saints such as St. Margaret Mary.

The Catholic Church clearly states salvation by faith in Jesus Christ alone. Most protestants don’t know this fact, I didn’t.

It seems though some preach you can do good works to earn your way into Heaven which Ephesians 2:8,9. states it is not so.
Some teach of the passage in James “faith without works is dead.” The fact is that passage was written to people who were already saved.

No one is “already saved” on this Earth because to be saved is to be with the Lord in His glory. This Protestant notion of predestination or other mangled versions of sola fide/sola scriptura rather badly contradicts itself.

It’s amusing to put forth a belief in the authority of Scripture (sola scriptura) then, when confronted with James 2, which demolishes another main tenet of sola fide, twist and spin and change it so that it says what is pleasing.


#15

Simon. I have enjoyed the exchanges as well. Take care and God Bless you on your journey. If you ever feel the urge to swim across the Tiber, jump on in! The water is great! God Bless! :slight_smile:


#16

[quote=Mike O]Well, you would be wrong. It is of pronounced difficulty to control the insult one feels when reading such tripe, particularly when you erroneously claim that Scripture supports this nonsense. Go back and read Matthew 1:25 again, then do some study on the translation and meaning of the word “until” in the Greek. Further, you should also look into the names of the children of Mary of Cleophas.

To suggest that the one God especially chose of all His creation, the “vessel”, as you put it, would have been marked with the stain of sin is not only an offense to the Blessed Mother but a grave offense to God Himself. If you had not realized that before, now you have been made aware.If you can find me a Catholic who considers the Blessed Mother a “deity,” I will find you a Catholic who has not the faintest clue about his faith.Once more, you are twisting Scripture to suit your false notions. The sixth chapter of the Gospel of John long, long ago did away with your objections, as did Christ’s very firm, direct words (NOT “This is the symbol/representation/figure of My Body, but this IS My Body”), as did the early Church fathers and the letters of St. Paul, as did the various Eucharistic miracles, as did the revelations of saints such as St. Margaret Mary. No one is “already saved” on this Earth because to be saved is to be with the Lord in His glory. This Protestant notion of predestination or other mangled versions of sola fide/sola scriptura rather badly contradicts itself.

It’s amusing to put forth a belief in the authority of Scripture (sola scriptura) then, when confronted with James 2, which demolishes another main tenet of sola fide, twist and spin and change it so that it says what is pleasing.
[/quote]

Listen, I refuse to leave on a negative note. I may have used deity incorrectly for that I apologize but as for the rest I am stating diffrences and understanding and that’s it.


#17

[quote=St.Eric]Simon. I have enjoyed the exchanges as well. Take care and God Bless you on your journey. If you ever feel the urge to swim across the Tiber, jump on in! Teh water is great! God Bless! :slight_smile:
[/quote]

Oops forgot about you! Take care may the lord be with you, It has been fun.


#18

Hi Simon -

How would we have fun with such a name? Let me count the ways!

Anyhow, a couple corrections…you said…

The Catholic Church clearly states salvation by faith in Jesus Christ alone.

and

It seems though some preach you can do good works to earn your way into Heaven which Ephesians 2:8,9. states it is not so.

You gotta add verse 10 in.

GRACE alone, not faith alone is the clear teaching of the church. vatican.va/archive/catechism/p3s1c3a2.htm#II
…Scroll down to 1996. Faith and works are produced by God’s grace. (Eph 2:8-10)

and…

The Roman Catholic Church is a Christian Church and the core teachings of the Church are salvation by faith in Jesus Christ alone and the Bible as God’s Word.

I already addressed the faith alone issue, so just a slight addition to the bible statement you made above. I am going to add this quote…

I think the main issues most protestants have with the Catholic Church is in your Traditions, which in reality we all have.

It is good you recognize that we all have traditions in one form or another. For Catholics, Sacred Traditions are those handed down from the apostles, which makes them the Word of God as much as any word in the bible. Protestants have real issues with that concept because, I think, that they are taught that ONLY the bible is the Word of God, which is understandable. But, if you have a look at all the other apostolic churches in the world, the Greek Orthodox, The Coptic, Menanite, Melkite, and even the church of Antioch which Peter started as it states in the bible, you will see that each of them practice pretty much the same apostilic Traditions as the Roman Catholic Church. antiochian.org/Patriarchate

more…


#19

The main one being Mary. Our opinion is she was immaculately conceived by the Holy Spirit, though a person born with sin just like us.
and she had other children as we know from the Scriptures.
We do honor her for her roll as a vessel.

You will find that all of these ancient churches practice Holy Veneration of Mary. Do a Google on"The Holy Theotokos" and see what you come up with. One thing in particular that you mention is “Though to us she is not a deity.” Did you get the idea that Catholics consider Mary a deity? That is a member of the Godhead, if I understand you correctly. That is wrong. She is most Venerated among saints. The “Chief Saint”, if you will. Again, this goes to the apostolic Traditions of the church. syrianorthodoxchurch.org/library/lent_2004.htm

Saving the best for last…

Another issue is transubstantiation
It is a theological argument that Scripture does not support, but Is not an area of contention.
Scripture tells us to have Communion in remembrance of his sacrifice.Though, there are those who believe based on
certain verses it becomes the literal body and blood of Christ. I understand.

The Holy Eucharist is the life blood of the Church. It is practiced throughout all of the apostolic churches and worshiped as Jesus. It would be pretty silly to worship a piece of bread and half-a-glass of wine, wouldn’t it? THAT is an argument for idolitry if I ever saw one. So the question is raised: is it or is it not the body and blood of Christ?

If it isn’t, then there are alot of people, nearly one fifth of the worlds population that are condemned.

But, if it is, then the words of Christ in John 6 have real, true meaning and protestants are depriving themselves of His spiritual food.

John 6
54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. 55 For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I have life because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will have life because of me.

antiochian.org/1123705915 (<- Click this!)

I am sorry to see you depart. It is good to open dialogue and exchange views and practices. Would you consider returning on occasion?

Other than that, I wish you and your family the peace of Christ Jesus,
Subrosa


#20

[font=Arial]Simon, God Bless you and I applaud you for your courage in stating your views in a Catholic Forum. I’m glad that you are leaving with a better understanding of Catholicism and I hope that you continue to look into it. Read the CCC and some of the links that were recommended to you. Just a few things on your farewell post:

[/font]and she had other children as we know from the Scriptures.[font=Arial]

[/font][font=Arial]This is a contention that the Catholic Church knows from Scripture that she had no other children.

[/font]We do honor her for her roll as a vessel. Though to us she is not a deity.

T[font=Arial]he CC is with you on this statement. She is not a diety to us either.

[/font]Another issue is transubstantiation
It is a theological argument that Scripture does not support,

[font=Arial]Again, this is something that the CC knows that scripture certainly supports.

[/font], I do get Catholocism! I sometimes wish the Catholics I know got it as well.

, Well, I certainly hope you straighten them out and I do not say that facetiously. If you run into a Catholic that says that the Church worships Mary or that she is a god, tell them that you know for a fact that they are wrong and that it is NOT a Catholic teaching. And yes, you probably know more now about the Catholic Church than many, many Catholics. Oh, and send them over to CA forum. If you can please read “The Lamb’s Supper” by Scott Hahn. That will give you more insights into the Catholic Mass. It’s awesome.

God Bless you and take care. Know that we are praying for you.


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