Finitude. Let’s discuss it


#1

This is in traditional Catholicism because this forum is for catholic tradition and customs.

So have you committed the sin of finitude.


#2

You may need to explain the sin of finitude for ignoramuses like my self ,Rose :slight_smile:


#3

Come on now , @Greenfields . :disappointed:

The philosophy of finitude, represented by postmodernity, maintains that our finite experience of life is the ultimate horizon of human knowledge. There is no absolute truth, thinking the absolute is pretentious. We have no grounds for claiming that a determinate reality—whether it is this God, this society, or this ideology—must necessarily exist the way it is. The recognition that we are finite and limited beings thrown into a particular time and place discredits all discourses that claim access to ultimate truth.

It’s surprising how I can make myself appear intelligent with a bit of Googling and copying . :rofl:


#4

I have just discovered this finitude. It means we are created imperfectly, with limits and boundaries (I think).

So the sin is in rejecting finitude. We should not be blaming everything on the demonic or saying if only x y or z or blame finitude on Original sin.

Because God created us with finitude. If we reject it, we reject God.

I should tag @CRM_Brother.

He might be able to explain it better.


#5

You are applying a different lens to it. I think. Well done though. Who else can we tag, hmmm


#6

Yes , @Roseeurekacross - - - - - - - - - - -

image


#7

Sounds like one of those deep-thought sins that’s too complicated for a dumb bear like me to commit.

I’ll stick to the good ol’ Seven Deadlies


#8

Okay, I just stepped into the crossfire between a philosophical usage of a term and a theological one… sigh.

Alright, lets start with philosophical finitude.

Really, this can be boiled down to two distinct points which the Catholic must be concerned about.

  1. All possible human knowledge is bounded by creation and the immediate human perception. Basically, if it can’t be immediately experienced, it can’t be known. This knowledge is not a sum total of human existence but rather transient as it is based upon the individual’s perception.
  2. There is no overarching truth, let alone an absolute one. Knowledge is encapsulated wholly within individual experience. There is no continuity and thus no absolutes or even transient constants which progress through human existence from one individual to the next.

This, as a whole, can be pretty clearly denounced as a heresy by simply saying “God existed before man.” This truth must have existed outside of man’s perception as man did not even exist yet.

Now on to theological finitude.
Pretty much, this boils down to: God made man (and all of creation) with limits… Full stop. This is pretty simple, but there can be heresy lurking within it’s shadows if it is taken in a specific way.

Heresy:
God made man with limits. These limits are intrinsic parts of human nature. God cannot violate these limits as doing so would contradict Himself. If God, being all powerful, cannot violate them, nothing else can. Thus, nothing may move us beyond these natural limits.

This looks nice and at first glance may seem true but, in reality, it is not. Yes, man has limits. These limits, exist solely within human nature. This human nature is first and foremost subservient to the divine will as it is an image and likeness (although an imperfect one) of God, who’s essence and will are one. Thus, grace may move mankind beyond their limits. We can see this in concrete examples of the Apostles speaking in tongues at Pentacost, the bi-location of St. Pio of Pietrelcina, or the levitation of St. Joseph of Cupertino. Even the existence of the soul after death exceeds the finitude of the body and disproves this heresy.

Hope this helped.
God Bless,
Br. Ben, CRM


#9

Awesome, ty CRM brother .

It was a theological usage. I had no idea there was a philosophical use for the term.

It’s a new concept and one I am reconciling in a theological form.

I was wondering too, as our faith grows and we become holier , on our journey in the Pilgrim Church , can these boundaries and limits move and/or expand.

If I am reading you right @CRM_Brother. they can, by the grace of God.


#10

My cousin is Finnish. Is that a contraction of “Finnish attitude”?

Finitude is what Jesus displayed with the money changers, i.e. He would not tolerate their usurious and corrupt behavior in His Father’s house - yet did not sin.

Related: anger is a passion that is morally neutral, yet intended to be used positively in opposition to evil.


#11

Wouldn’t that be a virtue?


#12

This is one of those concepts that makes me want to not exist.


#13

Exactly. Only with God can we exceed our natural limits. Holiness is this action of growing in God. His grace is integral to this growth.


#14

Sounds like what we call Moral Relativism, a term I first heard from the pulpit.


#15

With being created imperfect, as only God is perfect, we only become close to perfect in heaven?


#16

When we are commanded to be perfect in the Gospel of Matthew, the word used for perfect is teleioi’. It means to fill up or come to completion. Thus the completion of God is not the completion of Man simply due to the fact that man has finitude, even in the spiritual sense. . The closeness of God in Heaven does not cause an increase in perfection, but rather is the result of the ‘teleioi’ or completion of our selves in this world. There is no change in heaven. As the verse specifically refers to Man’s teleioi in respect to God’s teleioi, it is not a completion with respect to physical finitude but rather the completion of the spiritual reality which God calls us to and draws us out of our physical limitations for. This end to which God calls us is our spiritual finitude to which God predestines us but must be chosen by an act of our will.

To sum up: The perfection of Man is not the perfection of God. We must seek the completion of God’s call to holiness in this life.


#17

Hmmm… they are really crazy Rallye drivers.


#18

Grace builds on nature.


#19

Yep. Spot on.


#20

Rather, allow it to impel you toward perfection of your humanity. We are neither to lose sight of Jesus as we struggle with our cross, nor are we to attempt to struggle past Him. We form our wills so as to allow Him to lead, and God’s grace will be sufficient for the rest.


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