Fiorina: Clinton and Trump are the system


#1

Carly Fiorina Endorses Ted Cruz for President, says Clinton and Trump “are not going to reform the system, they are the system”.

Now, how can we turn this into Fiorina-and-the-GOP-establishment-are-out-to-get-Donald-Trump? (Kidding.)


#2

That endorsement and $5 will get Ted a Frappuchino.


#3

She’s too vague. Donald Trump constantly attacks PCness, which doesn’t really make him part of the establishment. He also thinks that former president Bill Clinton was the best president of recent times, and has been a Democrat most of his life. He also says unpopular (and largely true) things about mass immigration. All this, and the fact that the establishment itself dislikes Trump, tells me he isn’t the establishment, or at least things are far more complex than Mrs. Fiorina suggests.

Christi pax,

Lucretius


#4

I can see your point, but I can see hers, too. The culture of making deals behind the scenes and the cronyism and the power grabbing and the overall disconnection from the lives of ordinary people (except in finding tools to use them) is very like the establishment, just not actually in the establishment. :slight_smile:

I guess what matters is whether people hate the establishment itself or the tools that the establishment uses. If it’s the tools people hate, I don’t think a Trump victory will change things much.

I wish we could have had Fiorina against Clinton. Take away the whole “you have to vote for me because I’m a woman” thing, and Clinton doesn’t have much left. Fiorina does. :smiley:

–Jen


#5

Michael Medved has been making this case for months.

Country Club and going golfing, doesn’t that look establishment.

Donations to politicians in the interest of keeping the political machine going.

Friends with politicians.

In this case, we seem to have a difference in that this is talking about the GOP Establishment.

We will see.

In the case of Kasich, I do think there is a real concern with the people. So we will see.


#6

:thumbsup:

Add to that, I’m glad that Fiorina didn’t get down into the mud with Cruz’s rivals (excepting Kasich who has been a nice father-figure in the race). As it is, I’m shuddering to think how much mileage Clinton will get out of calling us “the party of playground brawls” or whatever. :frowning:


#7

Or perhaps it’s just a different part of “the establishment.” :slight_smile: Generally, people are frustrated by the self-serving symbiosis between politicians and big business. Trump hasn’t been part of the political side of that system until now, but he seems somewhat typical of the business side. So I can see what Fiorina is saying.


#8

Clinton doesn’t have much left? :rolleyes: She’s more than halfway to winning the nominatuion, far more than any Republican.


#9

And sadly it will be richly deserved.


#10

Where would she be without those super delegates? I do not know how many of them there are.


#11

Hillary would have killed Carly, nothing against Carly.

Though Carly is smart and capable, she doesn’t have a record of building or turning around troubled businesses. Hillary would have driven the dagger deep here. Anyone remember Compaq?


#12

She also said that the system is rigged. Since the system is rigged, American democracy is not looking too good to a lot of people.


#13

Here’s a question: can we sit down and give a clear meaning of what it means to be the “establishment?”

I think we can argue that the Establishment™ is in its essence the interests of those with power (whether that power be in money, Academic prestige, or the Media) influencing policy with pet ideologies. Movements like the Tea Party and Occupy both agree with what the problem is with the Establishment™, but disagree regarding the solution.

Here’s a possible insight:

Occupy Wall Street == Bernie Sanders, and

Tea Party == Donald Trump,

although I’m uneasy about the second equation. In the end, though, I think American politics has become a form of entertainment for many people. Many of my peers, for example, seem to have the same sentiments regarding their preferred candidates as they do with their favorite TV drama characters.

Christi pax,

Lucretius


#14

I think that many Trump supporters either: (A) see themselves as having left the Tea Party because the Tea Party didn’t do what it was supposed to, or (B) still see themselves as part of the Tea Party (hence possibly seeing Cruz as someone just masquerading as a Tea Party candidate).


#15

Trump = the pro-American party.


#16

Who is the etablishment?

The establishment is crony capitalism.
It is the establishment that let Ted Kennedy walk from the death of a girl in a trial that kept the details silent and out of public view.

It is the establishment that has Trump bragging how he is able to play the system. It is the establishment that has made the Clintons filthy rich just for speaking.

The establishment is both politicians being bought, and buying influence.

The establishment is what Obama promised to bypass eight years ago, and do things different in Washington.


#17

Don’t think that worked out so well.


#18

:smiley:

That goes without saying.


#19

Sometimes on has to rearrange the system in order to save it. I think that is what Carly did. Same thing with Romney. He took over companies to make them profitable. Sometimes when this happens, jobs are lost. I guess it depends on ;whether one thinks that a company should keep employees on even when they can do better as a business with less employees. Businesses are not formed to provide jobs.


#20

I should have been more clear:

I think that those who support the goals of the Tea Party tend to support Mr. Trump, and I think those who support the goals of the Occupy Wall Street movement tend to support Mr. Sanders. This does not mean that either candidate himself supports either movements goals in whole, or even in part. For example, I dont think we can describe Mr. Trump as a supporter of all the goals of the Tea Party, for example.

My comment is focused more on the candidates’ supporters rather than the candidates themselves.

Christi pax,

Lucretius


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