First Ever - Tridentine Mass in Phoenix, AZ -- Packed Standing Room Only

[quote=Karl Keating] “No, we’re aren’t interested in going backward. We want to fast-forward, right past the liturgical abuses that are so prevalent today. We think this ‘old’ Mass is the Mass of the future.”
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I heard a Trad once predict that the Novus Ordo would be history in 40 years. Let’s hope he means that mass as we know it with all the common abuses. And perhaps, some bishops will permit it with an indult

[quote=PASCENDI]I heard a Trad once predict that the Novus Ordo would be history in 40 years. Let’s hope he means that mass as we know it with all the common abuses. And perhaps, some bishops will permit it with an indult
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Karl has made a great point, don’t you think?


Anyway, the Archdiocese of Cincinnati has two Indult Masses…One in Cincinnati proper, and one in Dayton. They are hard to get to, but are, I think well attended. I have been to the Cincinnati one two or three times…It is hard for me to get downtown…I live out here int he burbs…

[quote=CD4]Karl has made a great point, don’t you think?



yes he has, that’s why he’s the president of Catholic Answers and not just an ordinary message board poster or radio show caller.

BTW, I got to the indult here in Columbus. Would love to see the ones you mentioned
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[quote=PASCENDI BTW, I got to the indult here in Columbus.
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And the Dominicans do the N.O. reverently here. That’s my other option. I avoid “Baby Masses”
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The Latin Mass never stopped being the Mass of the Roman Rite. See Council of Trent.

So do I. I’ve considered checking out the other indults in Ohio out of curiosity.

James

Definately one of the most orthodox parishes in the diocese. And the one with the most beautiful Liturgy (not counting the TLM at Holy Family).

James

Thank God for the indult Mass in Phoenix. May it be used to draw people towards the Catholic faith. Coupled with good music it could be a great place to take people who are not Catholic;–I have done that with the Dominican rite Latin Mass (about the same as the Tridentine) where I live.

May it also help lead to vocations.

dts, thanks for the link to the article, there were a number of good quotes in there.

God bless.

[quote=PASCENDI]yes he has, that’s why he’s the president of Catholic Answers and not just an ordinary message board poster or radio show caller.

BTW, I got to the indult here in Columbus. Would love to see the ones you mentioned
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The one in Cincinnati is at Sacred Heart Catholic Church…2733 Mass. Ave…The Tridentine Mass is celebrated at 11:30. Can’t remember the name of the one in Dayton…

[quote=Brennan Doherty]Thank God for the indult Mass in Phoenix. May it be used to draw people towards the Catholic faith. Coupled with good music it could be a great place to take people who are not Catholic;–I have done that with the Dominican rite Latin Mass (about the same as the Tridentine) where I live.

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Have you found protestants to be interested in the Traditional Mass? More so than the NOM? I would tend to think that protestants would be more drawn to the NOM being that it is closer to their form of worship.

James

While most Catholics who end up in the Traditional and Semi Traditional camps are cradle Catholics, the per capita rate of conversion of Protestants to the Catholic church in the US is lower now than it was in the 50s.

While many think the way the current missal is celebrated will help bring Protestanst to the church, the problem is, when the externals of the mass are de-sacramentalised, to the point of being, in terms of externals less sacramental in nature than that of Episcopalins and Lutherans, then there is little to grab on to. When the externals of the mass, the external mystery is lost, then it becomes fairly difficult to explain the nature of the real presence to many Protestants.

Comine a minimalist design for a parish, and this was starting to become a problem in the decade before Vatican II with a mass that has protestant style Haugen/Haas hymns, a small army of EMHC on the altar and altar girls, then once can see how the externals of the sacrafice can be lost.

There are many protestants are drawn to the Traditional Latin Mass, they are mostly the High Church variety.

Really sad that some protestants do not have problem kneeling for their communion service, while many fellow Catholics look down upon anyone who kneels for Holy Communion.

Even more sad, Protestants in England celebrate the Novus Ordo Missae with more reverence and adhear to the rubrics better than Catholics.

Just the latest stats on the Mass in Phoenix. It was estimated that 1200 to 1300 attended and that another 300 were turned away because there was no room - others could not find a parking spot there or at the Methodist Church next door and just went home.

Pretty overwhelming - I’m glad I went early

Hopefully when the newness wears off, they can keep a large contingent of parishoners, around 400-500 per week would make a good core to start with.

[quote=James0235]Have you found protestants to be interested in the Traditional Mass? More so than the NOM? I would tend to think that protestants would be more drawn to the NOM being that it is closer to their form of worship.

James
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I must agree with JNB’s comments in Post #31. I myself am a convert to the Catholic faith from Protestantism and I greatly prefer the Tridentine Latin Mass (even compared to a good Novus Ordo with no abuses).

One lady in particular I know has a Protestant background, (Foursquare,–non-denominational/charismatic, like my own background.) I have taken her to about 5 traditional Latin Masses. She actually asks me to tell here whenever another one is coming up so she can attend. She said she was in tears the first one she attended.

I want to take her to a Novus Ordo Mass just to get her perspective on it.

I really don’t take Protestants right off the bat to a Novus Ordo Mass (or if I do, I make sure it’s a reverent one) simply because I am concerned that it is too similar to what they experience in their own services. It may just leave them with the impression, “so, what’s the big deal?” Of course, I do tell them what the “big deal” is (the Holy Eucharist).

I simply have not had the type of positive response taking a Protestant to a reverent Novus Ordo as I have had taking one to a Tridentine Mass.

Also, I try to take a Protestant to a Tridentine Mass with Gregorian chant–that definitely helps. With the Tridentine Mass, a Protestant at least realizes he is experiencing something different, something unique, and this can cause him to at least question further. Thus I would encourage anyone who goes to a Tridentine Mass, particularly one with good music, to feel free to take a non-Catholic friend. At least it ought to make for an interesting reaction. And of course I usually have already shared some about the Catholic faith and the Holy Eucharist before I take a Protestant to any Mass.

Hope that helps. God bless!

[quote=JNB]While most Catholics who end up in the Traditional and Semi Traditional camps are cradle Catholics
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I disagree John. Nearly everyone at our coffee table after mass is a convert. Eg: Baptist, Congregationalist, Atheist, Buddhist etc. Even I “consider” myself a convert in light of the poor catechism, err religious studies I was taught.

[quote=James0235]Have you found protestants to be interested in the Traditional Mass? More so than the NOM? I would tend to think that protestants would be more drawn to the NOM being that it is closer to their form of worship.

James
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I’ve read, but haven’t seen enough examples of it personally to affirm that it’s a phenomenon, that homosexuals are drawn to the TLM. Not the in-you-face Rainbow Sash types but rather private ones who attend quietly and are drawn to antiquarianism.

Perhaps, they’d be receptive to conversion?

Based on my experience in my previous diocese, a large number of the Traditional Catholics are what can be called, like ourselves, “Reverts”.

I’m just a “vert.” Never left, I was just a protestant who faithfully attended mass in spite of what I believed

[quote=misericordie]:clapping: I am SOOOOOOO happy the Tridentine Latin Mass (of the indult) is spreading in popularity in this country!!:dancing: I hope the Bishops continue to realize that for the MOST part, this is not because people are nostalgic about the past, but because they are tired of all the liturgical abuses: Clown Masses, liturgical dancers, ballons and party supplies in many Masses, priest telling jolks literally from the pulpit, 10 or more (usually ultra-feminists) extra-ordinary ministers of the Eucharist, who distribute while the pries/priests sit down and lead the pe ople in the pew in singing on Eagle’s Wings, or other 1970’s “hymns.” :nope:
Yes!! lets continue praying that God through Mary may bless the Catholic Church in the United States with EXCELLENT:clapping: Bishops such as His Excellency Charles Chaput of Denver, Colorado.:dancing: :bounce: :smiley: :bowdown:
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I agree with your perspective. Refreshing to see your point of view.

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