First Indult Tridentine Mass - Detroit

Within weeks the archdiocese of Detroit will allow the Tridentine Mass to return to one of its churches, in another thread someone had mentioned that the first TLM Mass in his/her diocese had lines out the door, is this a common? I intend on going, it occurred to me that there might be an amount of curiosity and I expect good attendance but didn’t think there would be a capacity problem. Are there any other problems or confusions regarding dress, communion, genuflection’s or silence prior to Mass, that anyone that has attended an initial indult Mass has experienced. I’ve been to many TLMs and never witnessed any problems, but never at a new church.

Congratsulations in Detroit! I have read about parishes being full for the opening Mass and I only pray that the same happens and will continue in Detroit.

Also, I have personally asked the Bishop’s office of Orlando for an Indult. The secretary responded that the Bishops will consider it. There is no complete Latin Mass (Novus Ordo or Tridentine) that is technically affiilated with the Vatican in Orlando. Please pray for us here in the diocese of Orlando of if you will, visit www.orlandodiocese.org and send them an e-mail in support of tradition I would appreciate it!

Chris, I certainly hope to be there too. It’s the day after Diaconate Ordination, and there’s a Lions home game (I have tix), so a little creative schedule juggling may be in order. Have you ever been in St. Josaphat? I was there for the Feast of Our Lady of Czestochova. It is absoultely stunning.

http://www.gbjann.com/stjosaphat/images/Inside.jpg

I was just there last week! about every Sunday after Mass I take a trip and look at some of the old Churches in Detroit, if you’re able I highly recommend it, it’s very inspirational. Have you been to Sweetest Heart of Mary?(thus far my favorite church in the city) and St. Albertus, both within walking distance of St Josephat. St Albertus closed during the 1989 closings but they still hold a mass their at least once a month, its sad to see some of the (relatively minor) disrepair, but tugs at your heart to see some of the old Polish parishiners pride as they show their grandchildren where they celebrated Mass. I was hoping for a Latin Mass community to revive St. Albertus, while that was a pipe dream before its probably even more unlikely with the indult so close, but anything is possible.

Chris, I think Sweetest Heart of Mary is probably the most beautiful church I’ve ever been in, too. Did you know it’a also the largest church in Detroit? It’s clustered with St. Josaphat, and also St. Joseph (have never been there, but I heard it’s gorgeous). Fr. Borkowski is really doing an amazing job with the 3 parishes, and what, he’s maybe 40?

Old St. Mary’s is a beauty, too, but I love finding the unheralded treasures. :slight_smile:

[quote=Detroit Sue]Old St. Mary’s is a beauty, too, but I love finding the unheralded treasures. :slight_smile:
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I agree, and from my observations Old St. Mary’s seems to be doing fairly well. As for unheralded treasures, I must have driven by St. Anthony’s dozens of times but didn’t notice it until I stopped in last week, very striking, I could do without their movement of the altar, and placement of the choir, but a beautiful place. And fairly close to St. Joseph’s which is as gorgeous as you’ve heard, and as far as I can tell the least renovated church I’ve witnessed, the altar hasn’t even been separated.

I was under the assumption that the Latin Mass has been celebrated for years, with permission, at Assumption Grotto, Detroiters, clear me up on this.

[quote=puzzleannie]I was under the assumption that the Latin Mass has been celebrated for years, with permission, at Assumption Grotto, Detroiters, clear me up on this.
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Assumption Grotto does the NO Mass in Latin (am I correct in wording it this way?). The TLM will be offered the way it was before Vat. II. The priest will be facing the altar the same as the parishioners. Don’t expect to see a lot of priests there. Most of them are furious about it (jealousy maybe?), and are really condescending.

What I ***don’t ***understand is why they are not letting priests who already know the Mass offer it. Fr. Perrone comes to mind, as does Fr. Cini from Our Lady of Mt. Carmel in Detroit. I know that Msgr. LeFevre, rector of the Cathedral has been tapped as one who will be offering the TLM. We really just need to wait & see how it goes. I hope it goes GANGBUSTERS!!!

This could be an interesting curiosity. I was raised before Vatican II and was an altar boy then. However, I truly get a great deal more out of the mass in its present form. I studied Latin for 4 years in a good Catholic high school, but I much prefer listening to the Offeratory prayer in English rather than focusing on trying to interpret the Latin in my mind.

I’d like to see the old form again, but our Church has done a marvelous job of improving the participation and understanding of the mass.

[quote=Detroit Sue]Assumption Grotto does the NO Mass in Latin . . . The priest will be facing the altar the same as the parishioners. Don’t expect to see a lot of priests there. Most of them are furious about it (jealousy maybe?), and are really condescending.

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Yes. Assumption Grotto does the Mass of Paul VI in Latin. The priest celebrates ad orientem (facing the same direction as the people). The congregation recites the Creed & Pater Noster viva voce with gusto! During the Gloria, sung by the choir, some people bow at “adoramus te” and “suscipe deprecationem nostram” . . . EVERYBODY knows exactly what is going on every second. I live in metro NY but am thinking of commuting to AG on Sundays . . .:love:

Priests are furious because they, and Catholics in general, see the TLM as divisive. It is. It should not be, but many who felt betrayed, manhandled and disenfranchised when the TLM was outlawed by many (most) bishops have made it an issue, as have the “new Mass” proponents. I am glad the climate has shifted. In a Church which encompasses 23 separate churches and accommodates all of their rites, why SHOULDN’T the TLM be part of our “inclusiveness”?

I absolutely agree with your statement that the mass should not be divisive. If individuals experience the beauty of the Eucharist more fully within the Tridentine Mass, then I would encourage them to seek it out.

Language is secondary. I’ve had the opportunity to attend masses in English, Latin, Spanish, Italian and German and every time left believing that I had shared in the Eucharistic feast.

As long as it conforms to the norms of our Church, everyone should seek out the language and form that brings them closer to God

I have never been to a Tridentine Mass, anyone know of one in the far western suburbs of Chicago?

In Chicago, check out St. John (Jan) Cantius Parish.

cantius.org/HomePage.htm

[quote=Detroit Sue]Don’t expect to see a lot of priests there. Most of them are furious about it (jealousy maybe?), and are really condescending.
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Really? how so? I don’t frequent the more liberal churches, most of the Priest I’ve talked to themselves wanted to get the indult for their Parishes.

[quote=Detroit Sue]What I ***don’t ***
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understand is why they are not letting priests who already know the Mass offer it. Fr. Perrone comes to mind, as does Fr. Cini from Our Lady of Mt. Carmel in Detroit. I know that Msgr. LeFevre, rector of the Cathedral has been tapped as one who will be offering the TLM.hmm, I could give the conspiracy response, but I wont bite this time. http://forums.catholic.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I’m curious how they’re going to determine what Priest is going to say the Mass, from what I’ve read in the paper we’re not going to be able to get used to one Priest, but I’ll wait and see. Fr. Perrone is a hero to many in the Archdiocese, he made it clear recently in his Sunday bulletin that he is not in competition with the TLM, but he did increase the amount of Latin in all the masses, I go the 7pm weekday Mass about once a week and that was in English and is now in Latin, and has been getting rave reviews. I know that AG had hundreds if not thousands of signatures to request an indult for the TLM a few years back, when I asked what happened to those, I was told "we don’t know, we haven’t heard anything"http://forums.catholic.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

I would hope other Pastors would follow suit and rather then be condescending, aim high and make the Mass as beautiful as possible. The Masses at AG are, and the music has a level of sophistication I’ve never seen anywhere else.

Does anyone know the Priests that will be involved? I was at St. Josephat today and was told that there are either 9 or 12 Priests for the Tridentine Mass, and that Fr. Brown(e)? will be the first, but have not been told anything beyond that and do not know of that Priest, anyone else have any info?

[quote=Detroit Sue]Chris, I certainly hope to be there too. It’s the day after Diaconate Ordination
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So were you there? if so I’d be interested in hearing what you thought. I was able to attend, it was a bit clumsy, but since it was new for so many that was to be expected, at my first Tridentine Masses, I had the benefit of just having to get the dress right, and following the lead of others. Unfortunately there is no regular Priest, Servers or even a majority of parishioners to keep things straight, so I’m a bit concerned that at least some of these problems may last a while. Hopefully there will be some direction to the laity of what is expected some definite no-no’s were spotted. On the plus side the church was definitely fuller then what we see in your picture, and I got to meet one of the servers who is a seminarian for the FSSP, he’s praying they find a home in the Archdiocese soon, I will keep that, and him in my prayers.

[quote=Chris in Mich]So were you there? if so I’d be interested in hearing what you thought. I was able to attend, it was a bit clumsy, but since it was new for so many that was to be expected, at my first Tridentine Masses, I had the benefit of just having to get the dress right, and following the lead of others. Unfortunately there is no regular Priest, Servers or even a majority of parishioners to keep things straight, so I’m a bit concerned that at least some of these problems may last a while. Hopefully there will be some direction to the laity of what is expected some definite no-no’s were spotted. On the plus side the church was definitely fuller then what we see in your picture, and I got to meet one of the servers who is a seminarian for the FSSP, he’s praying they find a home in the Archdiocese soon, I will keep that, and him in my prayers.

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Thanks, for the update!

WCAR 1090 had a really good interview with that seminarian, and I guess they hired the Music Director from Assumption in Windsor, so I have high hopes for the choir there.

On not having a regular priest, I heard they ‘trained’ 12 priests to say the 1962 Missal, so even if they are all rough at the start, I do consider it wonderful that they have so many priests involved.

Hopefully, the family will be down there for Mass one week soon. :thumbsup:

[quote=Lakeside]I absolutely agree with your statement that the mass should not be divisive. If individuals experience the beauty of the Eucharist more fully within the Tridentine Mass, then I would encourage them to seek it out.

Language is secondary. I’ve had the opportunity to attend masses in English, Latin, Spanish, Italian and German and every time left believing that I had shared in the Eucharistic feast.

As long as it conforms to the norms of our Church, everyone should seek out the language and form that brings them closer to God
[/quote]

the language that is, but not the mass(form) should be the new mass, but people go against vatican II
:blessyou: Podo the Hobbit

the language that is, but not the mass(form) should be the new mass, but people go against vatican II

Why, exactly where in the Vatican II documents does it say that the Liturgy of the 1962 Missal should no longer be Celebrated?

I would like a direct quote from one of the documents please?

(If you don’t own a copy, here’s an online version)

rc.net/rcchurch/vatican2/

I found out earlier today a few more names who will be celebrating the Tridentine Mass at St. Josephat, they include, Fr. Halfpenny, Fr. Kasza, and Bp. Quinn. I’ve heard very good things about Fr. Kasza, and am not too familiar with the others. From what I’ve heard there will be fewer Priests then the 12 that were first expected.

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