Floods are judgment on society, say bishops


#1

This is based on a news story at telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/07/01/nflood201.xml. Please note these are Bishops of the Church of England.

A lot of Protestant churches are very hopped up on the “Jesus is coming! He is at the doors!” hype. But almost every generation has though the same thing. Still, we are supposed to watch and wait. This story does make me wonder.


#2

Sounds more like what one is used to hearing from Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson than the Anglican Church, but I guess there are some in every group. I do note that the Rt. Rev. Graham Dow who said that they were the results of moral decadence is described as a “leading evangelical.” Seems that this may be more of an evangelical point of view than an Anglican one.


#3

abbaswatchman.com/Abba’s Watchman shows solid proof we are headed for the fulfillment of Ezekiel 38/39 and Isaiah 17:1-7 as we are all on the road to Damascus (destruction) Isaiah 17 1-7 (we see our maker with our eyes) and when God gave our bodies over to death (Satan) we all became blind and some on the road are given sight (by asking forgiveness and “changing” our ways) but most are blind still in some way persecuting Gods church . Read the news and see the truth in Prophecy unfold as Damascus destruction is the beginning of the tribulation period and we are about to go through the fire . Read the story of Saul who is Paul on the road to Damascus and how he was made blind to show him he was blind and only after asking forgiveness and changing his ways by obeying God’s words did he receive his sight. We are all like Paul on the road to Damascus and we are nearly there. Read the news and see the Russian Iranian Alliance is pulling the whole world into destroying three kingdoms = Israel , U.S. , and the U.K. after Damascus destruction. There is so much proof . Read this here then come back for the news.

sorce


#4

This part of the bishop’s argument was interesting:

The bishop, who is a leading evangelical, said that people should heed the stories of the Bible, which described the downfall of the Roman empire as a result of its immorality.

Perhaps the bishop should start by doing a little date checking.


#5

While floods are natural occurances, God can intervene if he choose to limit the damage or protect individuals. Usually divine intervention ius subtle and not noticed. The more faithful the people are, the more likely of the intervention.


#6

Groups have been claiming that the end times are imminent based on natural disasters for millenia.


#7

Hi
I think I should first give the entire text of the news item of the Sunday Telegraph mentioned in the OP.

Floods are judgment on society, say bishops
By Jonathan Wynne-Jones, Sunday Telegraph
Last Updated: 12:13pm BST 01/07/2007

The floods that have devastated swathes of the country are God’s judgment on the immorality and greed of modern society, according to senior Church of England bishops.
The Bishop said pro-gay laws were to blame for the floods
One diocesan bishop has even claimed that laws that have undermined marriage, including the introduction of pro-gay legislation, have provoked God to act by sending the storms that have left thousands of people homeless.
While those who have been affected by the storms are innocent victims, the bishops argue controversially that the flooding is a result of Western civilisation’s decision to ignore biblical teaching.
The Rt Rev Graham Dow, Bishop of Carlisle, argued that the floods are not just a result of a lack of respect for the planet, but also a judgment on society’s moral decadence.
“This is a strong and definite judgment because the world has been arrogant in going its own way,” he said. "We are reaping the consequences of our moral degradation, as well as the environmental damage that we have caused."
The bishop, who is a leading evangelical, said that people should heed the stories of the Bible, which described the downfall of the Roman empire as a result of its immorality.
“We are in serious moral trouble because every type of lifestyle is now regarded as legitimate,” he said.
“In the Bible, institutional power is referred to as ‘the beast’, which sets itself up to control people and their morals. Our government has been playing the role of God in saying that people are free to act as they want,” he said, adding that the introduction of recent pro-gay laws highlighted its determination to undermine marriage.
"The sexual orientation regulations [which give greater rights to gays] are part of a general scene of permissiveness. We are in a situation where we are liable for God’s judgment, which is intended to call us to repentance."
He expressed his sympathy for those who have been hit by the weather, but said that the problem with “environmental judgment is that it is indiscriminate”.
The West is also being punished for the way that it has exploited poorer nations in its pursuit of economic gain. “It has set up dominant economic structures that are built on greed and that keep other nations in a situation of dependence. The principle of God’s judgment on nations that have exploited other nations is all there in the Bible,” he said.
He urged people to respond to the latest floods by turning away from a lifestyle of greed to instead live thinking of the consequences of their actions.
Global warming has been caused by people’s lack of care for the planet and recent environmental catastrophes are a warning over how we behave, according to the Bishop of Liverpool.
“People no longer see natural disasters as an act of God,” said the Rt Rev James Jones. “However, we are now reaping what we have sown. If we live in a profligate way then there are going to be consequences,” said the bishop, who has previously been seen as a future Archbishop of Canterbury or York.
"We have a responsibility in this and God is exposing us to the truth of what we have done."
The Rt Rev Richard Chartres, Bishop of London, said: "We are all part of the problem and part of the solution. Instead of living as if we owned the earth we need to recover a sense of being participants in a web of life with responsibilities to other life forms and to our children."
The Bishops’ warnings came as flood-hit communities were being warned to brace themselves for more torrential rain this weekend, with the Met Office issuing a severe weather warning for large areas of England and Wales, with up to 50mm (2in) of rain forecast.
Unquote
The warning given by the Bishops is appropriate enough for everybody, unless things are corrected in every part of the world and by every religion/denomination/faith the humanity is to suffer a lot. A concerted effort is required as a remendy.
Thanks


#8

I was caught in the Big Thompson flood in 1976 where several campus crusaders died from it. Our group hiked up a mountain and my knee gave out, so we set up camp near the top of the mountain. A flash flood hit the cayon below us and killed several campus crusaders among others. Was I really more holy, protected than those below in the canyon? How about Job’s family? Was that a judgement on them or simply Satan being allowed to practice his nature of being a murder?

ftp.rootsweb.com/pub/usgenweb/co/larimer/newspapers/btcf1976.txt

google.com/search?hl=en&q=Big+Thompson+flood+CO+campus+crusaders

Genesis 8:21 (King James Version)

And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man’s sake; for the imagination of man’s heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.
Genesis 9:11 (King James Version)

And I will establish my covenant with you, neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth.

God made a promise not to use a large flood as a means of judgement again.

Besides, an increase in floods is not one of the signs in Matthew 24.

Sign of the Last Days When by Carl O. Jonsson (Paperback - Sep 1987)

The Gentile Times Reconsidered: Chronology & Christ’s Return by Carl O. Jonsson (Paperback - Jul 1998)

amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/103-0437835-2499806?%5Fencoding=UTF8&search-type=ss&index=books&field-author=Carl%20O.%20Jonsson

These two books prove that there has been a decrease in the “signs” like earthquakes since mankind has been scientifically recording things like earthquakes.

The Gentile Times Reconsidered: Chronology & Christ’s Return by Carl O. Jonsson. A detailed discussion of the cornerstone belief that the Gentile Times began with the fall of Jerusalem in 607 B.C. Jonsson considers the origin of this belief and examines several lines of evidence refuting the starting date of 607 B.C. and the methodology for deriving it. ISBN 0-914675-06-0 Publisher: Commentary Press (July, 1998, Fourth edition 2004)

The Sign of the Last Days - When? by Carl O. Jonsson & Wolfgang Herbst. A case against the Jehovah’s Witness belief that the ‘sign of the Last Days’ began in 1914. Accompanied by historical figures for wars, famines, earthquakes and pestilences from past centuries, detailed world disaster statistics, and Biblical references. Sample chapters online: 3, 6. ISBN 0-914675-09-5 Publisher: Commentary Press (1 September 1987)

answers.com/topic/jehovah-s-witness-literature


#9

As I recall Jerry Falwell suggested that some time ago.


#10

This Bishop is way off base.


#11

He’s just using the downfall of Rome as an example,just as modern historians do when they observe parallels between the decadence of ancient Rome with that of modern America.


#12

really? And what is your support for this belief?


#13

Which might work as an explanation of the bible describing the fall of Rome if even your new testament had not predated the fall of Rome by some 400 years.


#14

As Father Corapi says, no one knows when the end is coming, but the end for you and for me is very near.


#15

Hey, Alabama is at least as corrupt as Texas. Where’s our flood? We’re 16 inches behind on rainfall for the year; they’re calling it the drought of the century (among other names).


#16

I seriously doubt that.:D:D


#17

I’ve never heard such utter poppycock & balderdash :slight_smile:

[LIST]
*]One diocesan bishop has even claimed that laws that have undermined marriage, including the introduction of pro-gay legislation, have provoked God to act by sending the storms that have left thousands of people homeless.[/LIST]In that case, why hasn’t San Fran been inundated or swamped by fire from Heaven ? Or did God miss ?

There are plenty of gays in Scotland - not just in the Midlands. Or maybe God’s a Calvinist, & has it in for Anglicans. Or may He just doesn’t like Midlanders. Or maybe He wants Anne Robinson to let Him on “The Weakest Link”. People who interpret these things are so boring & unintelligent: their ideas have more holes than a sieve: there is a ton of possible explanations. Yet only the usual ones are trotted out.

If “X has died horribly, therefore, X must have sinned horribly” is valid reasoning, that puts a massive question-mark over the English Protestants who were put to death for their Protestantism. As all sorts of Christians have died nastily, maybe God doesn’t like Christians. If God hates those groups so much - why doesn’t He kill them ? Maybe God hates gay-bashing Evangelical Anglican Bishops, & is storing up something really horrible for them. Do they know otherwise ?

If gays are so eeeeevil - well, He’s God, so he could kill off some of the Labour Party Cabinet members of the last ten years (now there’s a thought !), which He has so far declined to do. Maybe he was trying to slay Tony Bliar - or is He an ardent Blairite, & a bitter opponent of Gordy Brown, our new Great Leader ?

That’s it: [size=2]God Hates Gordy :slight_smile: [/size]

That would look good on a tee-shirt. It’s at least as likely as the piffle dreamed up by the doom-sayers in tin-foil hats, who always blame the same old groups. (Though I’d be even more impressed if He loosed a few thunderbolts against brain-rotting garbage like “Big Brother”, which is to TV what Enron was to probity in business.)

Besides, what sort of theological explanation would fit the scientific realities involved ? Flooding doesn’t happen just like that - it’s part of a much larger pattern. So if one is going to read theological meaning out of a flood, or out of any other occurrence in the weather, one has to take that larger pattern into account as well. It is possible that the weather for the next X billion years was preordained at the creation - but if that idea is present in their thinking, it should be made explicit.

Even if they have thought about that set of details, that still does not deal with the Biblical difficulties with the idea that “X has occurred, therefore, Y must have sinned”. Was Jesus crucified for His sins ? That is what this over-simple theory implies. Those bishops make God Almighty sound like Osama bin Laden, the Ayatollah Khomeini, & the Muslim Brotherhood, all rolled into one: God the Terrorist, Who kills the innocent with the guilty (& only some of the guilty at that). And that is bad. :frowning:


#18

The Lisbon Earthquake, perhaps - with its 40,000 dead.

Christianity must be bad, as shown by
[LIST]
*]the punishment of Lisbon for being Christian
*]the constant plagues & other evils that troubled Christendom after 500
*]the slaughter in Europe from 1900 - 2000.[/LIST]Reason - Capitoline Jupiter is angry, because he has been deserted for the last 1600 years; so Christians must cast off the Christian god, & return to the worship of the old gods.

That’s lot to be said for pre-Christian religions - it is very strange that the Empire fell apart so soon after it began to have Christian rulers. Something those bishops (& all other Christians who interpret events as indices of God’s attitudes) might like to think about.

Now, if we had trained diviners, who could read all the various kinds of omens properly, society might be far happier & more moral. Anyone for reading sheeps’ intestines :slight_smile: ?


#19

God works in many ways, most of which are unnoticed by us. For those who trust in him, little miracles do occasionally occur. Sites are occassionally protected from events include weather. Most of these miracles will only be recognized in heaven.

To answer where I get this from, my answer is “Prayer and openness to and listening to the Holy Spirit.”


#20

I understand Tony Blair is converting to Catholicism.

Will this be good, or bad, for the weather in Britain?


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