Follow the 5 Pillars and No One Can Denounce You?


#1

I keep hearing that if a Muslim follows the 5 pillars that even if he/she bombs a school of children then another Muslim cannot denouce him/her of being Muslim.

I just don’t get it. I am not looking for a fight. I just don’t understand how someone can completly go against the Muslim faith and yet still be called Muslim.

Someone who believes in abortion is not Catholic.
Someone who does not believe in the virginity of Mary is not Catholic.
Etc. etc.

I can understand that same person still thinking they are Catholic (many do) but they truly are not.

Please share with me.


#2

You see, it is not the individual muslims right to declare who is muslim and who isnt. If the person follows the five pillars, as far as you have seen, then you can not judge as to whether or not he/she will be tried as a muslim.

Islam does not have a central church like catholicism, and therefore we can not say things like what you have just said I.E. about abortion.

Basically, if someone does what the prophet defined a ‘muslim’ as, then he/she is ‘muslim’. If they bomb a school, then theyd just be a muslim in Hell, if that is what allah chooses.


#3

[quote=Donna P]I keep hearing that if a Muslim follows the 5 pillars that even if he/she bombs a school of children then another Muslim cannot denouce him/her of being Muslim.

I just don’t get it. I am not looking for a fight. I just don’t understand how someone can completly go against the Muslim faith and yet still be called Muslim.

Someone who believes in abortion is not Catholic.
Someone who does not believe in the virginity of Mary is not Catholic.
Etc. etc.

I can understand that same person still thinking they are Catholic (many do) but they truly are not.

Please share with me.
[/quote]

Donna, the idea is not whether or not they are muslim. It is the fact that I, as a muslim, can not call another muslim…a NON muslim

Drinking alcohol is against the teachings of Islam…some muslims drink alcohol. I can NOT call them non-muslim…its not my place and its not my business.


#4

Get it through your head, denouncing what some does as not a part of Islam and calling them a non Muslim are tow different things. Islam is a verb, an action, it means someone to summits your will to God, and the noun of this action is Muslim, the person who commits their will to God. You can not say someone does not summit their will to God; it is between them and God. What you can do is denounce their actions and try to fix it by showing them the right way.

was salma


#5

[quote=fatuma]Get it through your head,

was salma
[/quote]

Nice. I was just asking becuase I want to understand.

The others that answered helped me more.


#6

[quote=fatuma]You can not say someone does not summit their will to God; it is between them and God.
[/quote]

actually you can, if they act in direct defiance to God, if the reject the love of that is commanded of all men, then they are not submitting to God. If they call the truth of God a lie and hold it in contempt they they are not submitting to God.


#7

[quote=But for Grace]actually you can, if they act in direct defiance to God, if the reject the love of that is commanded of all men, then they are not submitting to God. If they call the truth of God a lie and hold it in contempt they they are not submitting to God.
[/quote]

Even if this is the case and you know its the case, but their actions still follow the 5 pillars than it is not the individuals place to make the judgement as to whether or not he/she is muslim, even if he/she tells you the only reason he/she is doing the 5 pillars is because his/her family makes him/her


#8

Eetaq - would you mind elaborating please. Especially how the person can hold the truth of God as a lie and still be said to submit to God.

God Bless and Peace be Upon you


#9

No problem.

Basically here is the deal:

If in the persons heart they couldnt care less about religion, if they even tell you that, but the persons actions are those of a muslim, then it is not allowed for you to be the judge and go about assuming this person isnt a muslim.

The reason for this is that the person may have been distraught or in a bad mood or even lying when they tell you that they dont care about Islam. You never know what is truly in the person’s heart, and if you were to make a judgement based off of observation then there is always a small chance you would be wrong.

So to avoid that small chance it has been made forbidden for a muslim to call another person a non-muslim, unless you can see that they do not follow the 5 pillars. If you can not see that they fail to follow them than it is not your place to judge whether or not they are muslim. On the day of judgement God will decide whether or not that person had a good heart, not you.


#10

[quote=But for Grace]actually you can, if they act in direct defiance to God, if the reject the love of that is commanded of all men, then they are not submitting to God. If they call the truth of God a lie and hold it in contempt they they are not submitting to God.
[/quote]

Who are you to make those judgments? Do you know what is in their hearts? Do you have that power to see? Are you the judge or is your Creator the Judge?

Leave the judgement to the Judge.

I personally try to worry about myself while at the same time try to help people see the light. I’m not going to waste brain cells to find out if they are true muslims or not. ITs none of my business, and i’m fine with that


#11

[quote=Eetaq]No problem.

Basically here is the deal:

If in the persons heart they couldnt care less about religion, if they even tell you that, but the persons actions are those of a muslim, then it is not allowed for you to be the judge and go about assuming this person isnt a muslim.

The reason for this is that the person may have been distraught or in a bad mood or even lying when they tell you that they dont care about Islam. You never know what is truly in the person’s heart, and if you were to make a judgement based off of observation then there is always a small chance you would be wrong.

So to avoid that small chance it has been made forbidden for a muslim to call another person a non-muslim, unless you can see that they do not follow the 5 pillars. If you can not see that they fail to follow them than it is not your place to judge whether or not they are muslim. On the day of judgement God will decide whether or not that person had a good heart, not you.
[/quote]

asalamu alaikum brother

we wrote our responses at the same time…and we said almost the same thing (you in a much better way though). SubhanAllah


#12

Faith101 - please read things more carefully, I said if they act in defiance to God. Now actions can be seen since they are what we do. Now if I had said that their thoughts defied God then you would be right in claiming it as false judgement. Further I said “if they call the truth of God a lie” which is a verbal or spoken medium. Once more their opinion moves out of the realm of thoughts. It is in these physical aspects that we can and should call people to task and expect them to keep the precepts of their religion, lest we have people claiming terrorist acts in the name of our religion, but we cannot denounce them, “because we do not know their hearts”. This may be true, but the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree either.


#13

[quote=But for Grace]Faith101 - please read things more carefully, I said if they act in defiance to God. Now actions can be seen since they are what we do. Now if I had said that their thoughts defied God then you would be right in claiming it as false judgement. Further I said “if they call the truth of God a lie” which is a verbal or spoken medium. Once more their opinion moves out of the realm of thoughts. It is in these physical aspects that we can and should call people to task and expect them to keep the precepts of their religion, lest we have people claiming terrorist acts in the name of our religion, but we cannot denounce them, “because we do not know their hearts”. This may be true, but the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree either.
[/quote]

Because you dont know what is in their hearts, you can not judge them on their actions. An action is defined by the intention that is behind it.

Muslims ARE denouncing these actions. There is a petition going around called “not in the name of Islam” where thousands (i dont know the exact number ) of muslims have signed.

If you feel comfortable gonig around telling a catholic who did something against the church that they are no longer catholic, then go right ahead. But i personally dont feel it is my business to pinpoint individual people and say “your not a muslim.” I can denounce their actions if they are clearly outside the realms of Islam…but I wouldnt label them. Who knows…maybe God will guide them back.


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