For Devout Catholics: If the Pope declared the Shroud of Turin to be the burial cloth of Jesus, would you believe?


#1

I have admitted to many in these Forum that the Shroud of Turin is the Real Burial Cloth of Jesus Christ. I use to deny it but after thorough research, I find the Shroud to be the burial Cloth of Jesus.

If the Pope (maybe Benedict XVI or someone after him) declared that the Burial Cloth of the Shroud to Turin to be the 100% the burial cloth of Jesus Christ would you believe it? There is mounting event to prove that it is.


#2

Why not make this thread into a poll?


#3

It is a poll.


#4

This would be getting a little into the realm of science I would think, not directly into faith & morals.

The Church allows freedom of thought in this regard & I would think it’s up to us indivual believers to make a judgement here.

Just MHO.


#5

I know. I didn’t see it at first. Then I deleted my post. Sorry. :blush:


#6

Don’t worry about it. I watch two documents about the Shroud and there is more proof to prove it is Jesus’ burial cloth than evidence against it.


#7

Well, if he would declare it infallibly then I would believe :D. (I think he could theoretically make such an ex cathedra statement, right?). Otherwise I would take it as an opinion of a wise man, which would have much value for me but would not be binding.

But the reality is that I guess I do believe that the SoT is real, although I would not defend it blindly since I haven’t done any serious research about it.

My answer doesn’t seem to fit anywhere so I will not vote.


#8

If the Pope believed it I would believe it. I think it really is the burial cloth of Jesus–I’m just not 100% sure.

If the Pope said it was I’d take that endorsement to the bank and cash it!


#9

AMEN!


#10

I forgot the mention. "If the Pope declare Ex-Cathedra that the Shroud of Turin, after an intense scientific and theological data concerning the shroud as the burial cloth of Jesus, would you believe in it?

I think it would be amazing. If he does indeed declare it infallibility. I think he would have to justify it by looking deep into the mystery of the Shroud.


#11

Yeah, I think it really is Jesus’ burial shroud. I have heard/read all the arguments for a painting, but I can never get past the fact that it would be harder for it to be a fake. I mean, a:shrug: photographic negative being created in the Middle Ages?? That really makes no sense. A fake–even a pious one–made in that time frame would look like a positive image, at least.

I also…and this is going to, I predict, drive somebody crazy, but…
I find it very interesting that we have not one, but two, amazing photographs, made before there was such a thing as photography: The Shroud, & the image of Our Lady of Guadelupe…See, I feel that each one, in a way, supports the reality of the other. It is as though God decided to create a miraculous image, & to do so, using technology that we, in modern times, would be able to understand & appreciate…All this time, somebody decided to take a picture of the Shroud, & lo & behold, it’s a negative! Let scientists loose on OLG, and there’s a positive image!

Photographs, made umpty years ago, just waiting for someone to notice. Seriously cool…How much would you have loved to be in
that guy’s darkroom, when the pic he took of the Shroud showed a positive image for the 1st time in 2000 years???:thumbsup:


#12

I already think it is. But even if the pope did it would not matter because that would not be a matter of faith or morals. No one would be required to believe it.


#13

I already believed just because I felt drawn in that direction. Then I heard that Mother Teresa of Calcutta went to see the Shroud of Turin, which seems like a good indicator to me of its authenticity. I also had a rather unique and unexpected personal prayer experience regarding the Shroud of Turin, when I hadn’t even meant to be praying about it in the first place. :o

~~ the phoenix


#14

What if he said it as Ex-Cathedra in terms of faith issue?

Let us suppose, he made a proclamation that the resurrection of Jesus Christ is proven in the written traditions of the Catholic Church and the physical evidence surrounding the burial cloth of Jesus Christ.

The issue of the resurrection would fall under faith issue since the CC affirm that Jesus resurrected. To support this, the shroud would be that proof as a type of physical evidence.

Here is a strong case that the man in the Shroud is Jesus Christ.

The shroud depicts a man having wounded marks

  1. His head- wounds resembling wounds cased by a crown of thorns. Also describe in detail in the Bible.

  2. A pierce side near his rib, just as describe in the Bible.

  3. Wipe marks from the front and back from a Roman wipe.

  4. Nail wounds on the wrists, and feet, just as depicted in the Gospel.

  5. Wounds on the knees due to falling on hard ground. I recall that Jesus Christ fall three times.

  6. Swollen area near the eyes.

The only man describe in history who had a crown of thorns on his head is Jesus. As we both know, any Jewish crucified at the time of Christ was nailed to the cross but was did not had a crown of thorns on his head.

The shroud of Turin is the only graphic depiction of a man crucified in full details. The image has not been reproduced by anyone. I firmly believe that the Shroud is truly the burial cloth of Jesus Christ.

I could say more but if you all do research on this artifact, you will believe it is Jesus’ burial cloth. You want to seek the Truth, you can seek what is behind the mystery of the Shroud.

Even though we are not required by the Church to believe whether it is really the burial cloth of Jesus, there is a strong case to prove that it is. The burial cloth is dated in the First Century in Judea.


#15

You really think none of us have read the books on the Shroud, bought the DVD’s on the research and watched all programs on this. Of course we have but there is NO proof. It is all down to belief or not and we are free to believe or not.


#16

Zooey, don’t forget - there is another image as well - Veronica’s cloth - the one she wiped Jesus’ face with and an image of His face transferred onto the cloth.

As for the Shroud. I believe it to be authentic. So, if the Pope did make such an infallible pronouncement - I would believe it.

On the flip side - if someone could prove that it could NOT possibly be the burial cloth of Jesus, it would not shake my faith one iota because my faith is not based on particular items that we venerate. My faith is based on Jesus not a cloth, a saints bones, etc. And I’m sure the other Catholics here will feel the same.


#17

And then there’s the pollen grains. Someone who normally researches ancient burial sites for clues to peoples’ diets and farming practices did some work on the Shroud. They found tons of pollen grains, which would, apparently, be in accord with Jewish burial practices of wrapping flowers with the body.

Several of the pollens were from plants that don’t grow in Europe. One only grows in the area around Jerusalem. And they were all from plants that bloom in early Spring (i.e. around Passover).

And you should’ve seen the nasty, twisted weed that they found pollen for all around the head… it wasn’t a vine with thorns, it was a horribly spiky leaf that had to be handled with leather gloves.

Of course, being a gardener, I appreciated that aspect of using the pollens (and an excellent microscope). :thumbsup:

Also, the Shroud isn’t just a negative image. One scientist ran the image through some software that NASA uses to translate 2D images into 3D. Any normal photo or painting would come out distorted under this software. The Shroud, however, comes out as a properly proportioned head.

No evidence?!? How the heck would anyone in medieval Europe know about the pollens? You can’t even see them. There are so many things about the Shroud that are only now being explored because the technology didn’t exsist before.


#18

shroudofturin4journalists.com

The above’s a nice website.

I believe on the Shroud’s authenticity, but even if the Shroud be disproved, so what? It wouldn’t shake my faith on Jesus.


#19

Correct me if I’m wrong but the Pope couldn’t declare it ex-cathedra. The purpose of this infallible teaching is to safeguard the deposit of faith (fidei depositum) given to us by God’s revelation which ended by the death of the last Apostle. Maybe I’m wrong but I just don’t see the connection with why the “Shroud of Turin” would have to do something with it.


#20

That’s true!! I had forgotten that when I posted.
And of, you are right; we should not attempt to build our faith on such things.
But I have been thinking for sometime, that there is something very tantalizingly similar about these miraculous photographs…In earlier times, perhaps, when people’s faith was simpler, they simply accepted…But in these days of so much doubt & irreverence?? Suddenly, our own technology reveals:) more.


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