For some, Communism is not dead

It seems as though there are still many people in Russia and its former allies that see Josef Stalin as a great patriot, great man, and hero to the Russian nation. Apparently today is his birthday.

This is a news item from Yahoo.com news.

news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091221/ap_on_re_eu/eu_russia_stalin_s_birthday

Sure, he was responsible for 20 million deaths in the USSR, but other than that, it was the good old days.

Lot of Marxist-Leninist nostalgia going around.

Very sad that people would consider him a hero. Not to argue, but I saw where it was around 27 million. But then again according to Stalin:

“One death is a tragedy; one million is a statistic.”

also:

"Death is the solution to all problems. No man - no problem. "

Sorry, I’m editing again. Stalin just forgot about God. I think in His own time, He took care of the problem.

I wonder where the world would be today if it weren’t for men like Pope John Paul II, Reagan, and Gorbachev. I think that Gorbachev was a man well ahead of his time.

I don’t know if anyone can help on this, but there are a lot of claims that Gorbachev is a Christian now. I know that he visited St Francis shrine and made very positive comments about St Francis and the role of the Catholic Church. Wikipedia claims he is atheist. NNDB.com claims he is Russian Orthodox. I like the man. I hope he has embraced the Christian faith for himself.

Paully

It's pretty weird to see people praising Stalin after all we know about his regime. Even Hitler killed far fewer people, and to be associated with his memory is about as low as you can get as a person. I've always wondered how people suddenly gave up communism in 1991. On the one hand, the collapse of the U.S.R.R. showed what a paper tiger the communist empire had actually been. A lot of people must have just gone along to get along. On the other hand, communism was all some people had ever known. For the true believers, it must be a belief as strong as my own belief in Christ. If somebody told me tomorrow that I wasn't a Christian anymore, I know what I'd tell them.

And while all people are equal there is a real difference between Stalin (and Mao) and Hitler. Hitler killed those who in his sick state of mind he believed to be his enemies. Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Kim Ill Sung and Kim Jong Ill kill their own people.

Communists have always been very good at twisting words and giving old words new meanings.

If you are interested, there are ways to do some reading:

“Fire in the Minds of Men” by James Billington

“The Philosophy of Communism” by McFadden

“None Dare Call It Treason” by John A. Stormer

“The Black Book of Communism” [several authors]

Read also books by Robert Conquest on the Ukrainian starvation. Haynes & Klehr on Venona. Radosh on “Commies”. M. Stanton Evans on “Blacklisted by History”.

www.aim.org

www.humanevents.org

Read also the work of Cliff Kincaid:

aim.org/speakers-bureau/cliff-kincaid/

and

usasurvival.org/index.html

Read up on the role of Julius and Armand Hammer [father and son] in propping up the finances of Lenin and the Soviet Communist party.

theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/armand_hammer.htm

And also in that same article above, read up on the role of Albert Gore (Sr.) and Albert Gore (Jr).

Yes, THAT Algore!

I just read the article you linked to fultonfish and that is indeed disturbing news, which begs the following questions given what we’re familiar with on that whole Chinagate fiasco where the Clinton Administration allegedly took campaign contributions from abroad: Is Al Gore a Communist or just one of their useful idiots?

Shocking that there are so many people sympathizing with the man.

The thing about communism, it was great for slackers. The quality and quantity of one’s work and one remuneration were unrelated.

Now that people have to actually work for a living, and it is difficult to get ahead even with hard work (because of the former KGB mafia robbing everything), people are senitmental for the ‘good ole days’.

Ukrainians and those from the non-Russian elasticities may feel differently of course, but for Russians who liked the idea of slacking being profitable, Stalin was not their monster.

And the people for whom he was a monster, they were all wiped out long ago. Teh dead don’t get a vote in this.

First, you [not you personally] need to confront Al Gore and the Democrats that these payoffs existed and may still be going on. IT ACTUALLY HAPPENED AND THEY MUST ACKNOWLEDGE IT.

Second, you need to get into it more deeply.

More and more stuff is coming to the surface. Such as the climate gate scandals.

homelandsecuritynewswire.com/climategate-leak-not-hack

Thanks to the internet, more and more and more of this information is accessible to the public.

Who said he was useful?

Here is a little research project.

If one of the newer posters is interested, make a summary table from this book:

I was reading “The Black Book of Communism” which details the millions and millions of people systematically murdered, country by country, by the Communists.

It’s a very comprehensive book.

What I have not found is a summary table which would be useful in these sorts of debates.

For example, the Communists went into Poland and rounded up and interned in camps police officers and military officers; and then systematically and deliberately from April 3, 1940 to May 13, 1940 in those six weeks, all 14,587 were shot in the back of the neck and buried in mass graves. On June 9, 1940, the assistant to the head of the NKVD [predecessor agency to the KGB] reported that the camps were empty.

That’s on page 369.

What we know is that a bill in Congress H.R. 645 endorsed by Congressman Alcee Hastings [D, Fla.] has proposed similar camps for the United States.

When Castro took over in Cuba, they executed tens of thousands of people who “might” be critics or oppose the administration there.

When Pol Pot took over in Cambodia, they rounded up MILLIONS of people who might be critics or oppose the administration there. They were afraid they might not have enough bullets so the MILLIONS were clubbed to death. The criteria of potential opponents in Cambodia was anyone who wore eye glasses. I guess they figured that people with eye glasses could read.

Rep. Alcee L. Hastings, D-Fla., has introduced to the House of Representatives a new bill, H.R. 645, calling for the secretary of homeland security to establish no fewer than six national emergency centers for corralling civilians on military installations.

The proposed bill, which has received little mainstream media attention, appears designed to create the type of detention center that those concerned about use of the military in domestic affairs fear could be used as concentration camps for political dissidents, such as occurred in Nazi Germany.

The bill also appears to expand the president’s emergency power, much as the executive order signed by President Bush on May 9, 2007, that gave the president the authority to declare an emergency and take over the direction of all federal, state, local, territorial and tribal governments without even consulting Congress.

DHS has awarded a $385 million contract to Houston-based KBR, Halliburton’s former engineering and construction subsidiary, to build temporary detention centers on an “as-needed” basis in national emergency situation

[quote="PadraigPearce, post:5, topic:180486"]
It's pretty weird to see people praising Stalin after all we know about his regime. Even Hitler killed far fewer people, and to be associated with his memory is about as low as you can get as a person. I've always wondered how people suddenly gave up communism in 1991. On the one hand, the collapse of the U.S.R.R. showed what a paper tiger the communist empire had actually been. A lot of people must have just gone along to get along. On the other hand, communism was all some people had ever known. For the true believers, it must be a belief as strong as my own belief in Christ. If somebody told me tomorrow that I wasn't a Christian anymore, I know what I'd tell them.

[/quote]

It is not really weird for people to be praising uncle joe (as people were fondly or sycophanticly terrorized into calling him) since he went to great lengths to keep his crimes covered up. there is still know knowen body count I've seen it as low as 100,000 and as high as 60,000000. Most people still do not know about his forced starvation of ukrain or the horrors his right hand thug beria (head if what became kgb) did such as raping women in brutaly violent was then sending them to the goulag or burying them in his basment (which is kind of funny since every one in the politi buro knew about the bodies yey brought him down with fabracated evidence). but in the end we still do not know of all the evil stalin did or where the bodies are buried. A good book to check out on all the twisted things joe and his merry buch of murderers (yeah the were merry-non stop boozing) did is court of the red czar (sorry can't remeber who wrote it its been years since I read it)

amazon.com/Stalin-Court-Simon-Sebag-Montefiore/dp/1400042305

Stalin: The Court of the Red Tsar (Hardcover)
~ Simon Sebag Montefiore (Author)

Excerpts from one of the book reviews at Amazon:

Hannah Arendt, in her work Eichmann in Jerusalem, coined the phrase `banality of evil' to describe the rather bland existence of those who, like Eichman, were capable of committing unpardonable acts of unspeakable bestiality. Simon Sebag Montefiore's elegantly written Stalin: Court of the Red Tsar (Red Tsar) mines this same vein in his examination of the life of Stalin and his inner circle. Red Tsar provides the reader with an inside, almost voyeuristic, view of the life of Stalin and his circle from his accession to power after the death of Lenin until his own death in 1953. Montefiore does a masterful job of setting out the personal lives and inner workings of Stalin and his court against the backdrop of the extraordinary historic events that wracked the USSR during those times. During Stalin's rein the Ukraine was wracked by forced starvation in the Ukraine and rural masses were brutally killed and/or exiled in the anti-kulak campaign. Through show trials and purges and through a war on the eastern front that will probably never be matched for horror and brutality, Stalin and his courtiers lived lives of bourgeois expectations and affectation that would be recognizable if they were played out in Moscow, Idaho and not the USSR.

Red Tsar has been meticulously researched. Montefiore has done a marvelous job of examining newly opened Russian archives. He interviewed a large number of surviving family members of the inner circle and was provided access to diaries, memoirs, and personal correspondence that has not been seen by historians prior to this work.

From this point Montefiore takes us back and examines the process by which Stalin acquired absolute power. Montefiore makes it clear that, contrary to popular belief, it took Stalin years to acquire the power that has since become enshrined in myth. He did not just intimidate people, he cajoled, he charmed, and he compromised. Even as late as the mid-1930's there were more than a few instances where Stalin did not quite get his way. Unfortunately, Stalin had a prodigious memory for slights and obstacles along his path to power. Stalin was, if nothing else, capable of long term thinking and he did not need instant gratification when it came to evening the score.

It is an overview of Stalin's court, Beria, Malenkov, Molotov, Krushchev, Yezhov (NKVD boss before Beria), and Zhdanov and their families. They all lived in the same apartment complexes in or near the Kremlin. They were friends as well as rivals and their wives and children mingled freely with each other and even with Stalin.

Last, two portions of the book are particularly compelling. The first takes place in the immediate aftermath of the German invasion of the USSR in June, 1941. Totally despondent over the overwhelming early losses suffered by a military criminally weakened by purges and aware that Stalin had completely outfoxed him. He took to his rooms and would not come out. Finally, when his court finally saw fit to intrude on Stalin's isolation Stalin quivered and asked if they had come to arrest or execute him. Equally compelling is the story of Stalin's long medical decline and the horrible events surrounding his lingering death.

One caveat for readers new to Soviet history. Montefiore's treatment focuses on the inner workings of Stalin and his court. He describes the historic events that take place outside the court in a manner that assumes a certain baseline familiarity with those events. As good as this book is, the reader new to Soviet history might be well served to start off with a general history before delving into Red Tsar. Having said that, Court of the Red Tsar is a wonderful treatment of the inner works of life under Stalin. It should be read and savored.

There is a lot of confusion about socialism and communism, contrasting and comparing.

I had found this Web site which is worth reviewing

jesus-is-savior.com/Evils%20in%20Government/Communism/10_planks.htm

Visit the site for the details of where we are.

Here is a summary of the ten planks.

  1. Abolition of private property and the application of all rent to public purpose.

  2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.

  3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.

  4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.

  5. Centralization of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly.

  6. Centralization of the means of communication and transportation in the hands of the State.

  7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State, the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.

  8. Equal liability of all to labor. Establishment of Industrial armies, especially for agriculture.

  9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the population over the country.

  10. Free education for all children in government schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production

[quote="JimG, post:2, topic:180486"]
Sure, he was responsible for 20 million deaths in the USSR, but other than that, it was the good old days.

Lot of Marxist-Leninist nostalgia going around.

[/quote]

Yeah, I've read he has done it with bare hands!

In fact the ideas of communsim are good not? they are similar to christian values(everyone should be equal!)

[quote="Catilina, post:18, topic:180486"]
Yeah, I've read he has done it with bare hands!

In fact the ideas of communsim are good not? they are similar to christian values(everyone should be equal!)

[/quote]

The way it has worked in communist countries is that everybody has an equal chance to be starved, murdered, or sent to the gulag. I'm sure the North Koreans love it. Communism fought a long war against the Catholic Church, and lost.

[quote="Catilina, post:18, topic:180486"]
Yeah, I've read he has done it with bare hands!

In fact the ideas of communsim are good not? they are similar to christian values(everyone should be equal!)

[/quote]

Everyone should have equal freedoms, but when you enforce equality of prosperity, you must by necessity use compulsion and force in order to achieve it. Thus it is no longer charity, which is a Christian value, but organized theft, which is against the 10 commandments.

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