For thine is the Kingdom...


#1

I feel very uncomfortable saying “For Thine is the Kingdom…” after the Our Father at mass because only the protestants said it when I was growing up. It brings back painful childhood memories every time I hear it because my mother, a convert from Lutheranism in 1938 was shunned by her family. I never got to know my relatives on her side of the family even though we lived in the same town. I hope God will be patient with me for not wanting to say the “protestant” words. Am I the only one who feels uncomfortable with this protestant prayer?


#2

Someone correct me if I am wrong but I have understood that this was part of the doxology of the Our Father in the liturgy before protestantism.


#3

I have not heard this King James Version of the doxology at mass - instead I normally hear “For the kingdom, the power, and the glory are yours, now and forever.”


#4

As you can see I have completely turned my brain off when the Our Father comes to an end. My mind wonders back to childhood and it hears the “King James” version even though others may be saying a more modern version of the same idea. I need to stop having the flashbacks before I will feel comfortable with it.


#5

dont say it then!

say it then!
say it in your heart and thats all that god wants of you!


#6

It is part of the doxology of the litergy and therefore just as important and mandatory as saying the Lord’s Prayer itself. We are not called to question the litergy, but to empty ourselves and serve it. It is part of the communal prayer. It has always been part of the litergy, way before there even were Protestants, so there is no way you can say that they are the only ones who say it.


#7

Yes, this is a very ancient addition to the Lord’s Prayer (i can’t think of a point outside of the Gospels that it appears in that it does not occur).

In the Byzantine Rite, the Our Father always appears with this doxology, in adjusted form: “For thine is the kingdom, the power, and the glory, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, now and ever, and forever. Amen.” However, only a Priest or Bishop can say this, as it is always given as a blessing. So when laity, and clergy deacon and lower say the Our Father, a substitute prayer is said: “Through the prayers of our holy Father, O Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on us. Amen.”

In Christ,
Adam

PS, i am becoming disturbed about all this shunning that folks are reporting-i have never heard of it outside of the Amish community before this, and an earlier thread. We ought to pray for the increase of Love among Christians.


#8

For thine is the Kingdom, the Power & the Glory…now and forever…

These are not protestant words…but Christian words…its very Catholic…the word Catholic means Universal.


#9

[quote=akemner]i am becoming disturbed about all this shunning that folks are reporting-i have never heard of it outside of the Amish community before this, and an earlier thread. We ought to pray for the increase of Love among Christians.
[/quote]

These appear to be, in most cases, a personal reaction by the shunners, and not an ecclesiastical mandate by some denomination or local church.

“Shunning,” as an eccesiastical measure, goes back at least to the anabaptists. It’s an attempt to follow various admonitions of St. Paul regarding church discipline.

Person-to-person, on the other hand, is just —hey, it’s a free country. You can pick your nose and you can pick your friends.

But it really is sad when families let things separate them. I’m betting for sure that Ally’s family wasn’t from The South. :smiley:


#10

FYI-

The Didache-Teaching of the Twelve Apostles-Oldest Church Manual…

	 	 	 	  **The Teaching of the Lord by the Twelve Apostles to the Gentiles.**


	 	 	 	  **Chap. X.**       1.  Now after being filled, give thanks after this manner:       2.  "We thank Thee, Holy Father, for Thy Holy Name, which Thou hast caused to dwell (tabernacle) in our hearts, and for the knowledge and faith and immortality which Thou hast made known to us through Jesus Thy Servant, to Thee be the glory for ever.       3.  "Thou, O, Almighty Sovereign, didst make all things for Thy Name's sake; Thou gavest food and drink to men for enjoyment that they might give thanks to Thee; but to us Thou didst freely give spiritual food and drink and eternal life through Thy Servant.       4.  "Before all things we give thanks to Thee that Thou art mighty; to Thee be the glory for ever.       5.  "Remember, O Lord, Thy Church to deliver her from all evil and to perfect her in Thy love; and gather her together from the four winds, sanctified for Thy kingdom which Thou didst prepare for her;*** for Thine is the power and the glory for ever.***       6.  "Let grace come, and let this world pass away. Hosanna to the God of David. If any one is holy let him come, if any one is not holy let him repent. Maranatha. Amen."       7.  But permit the Prophets to give thanks as much as [in what words] they wish.

This is where the basic wording came from. I don’t know how the Protestants picked it up to be at the end of the Lord’s prayer in the form that it has come to be. But the basic prayer words come from the earliest Church documents and teachings and I understand was a part of the earliest Mass. Ally, when you get to this part what I would do is, instead of cringing from it, emphasize it and think of what the words actually mean and tell yourself that the small minds of those who tried to hurt you and your mother will not deter you from the worthy and loving worship of God. After all you are speaking to God the Father and I know that you mean the words so say them happily and galliantly with love in your heart and voice.

God bless.
Whit


#11

[quote=whit]FYI-

The Didache-Teaching of the Twelve Apostles-Oldest Church Manual…

 is where the basic wording came from. I don't know how the Protestants picked it up to be at the end of the Lord's prayer in the form that it has come to be. But the basic prayer words come from the earliest Church documents and teachings and I understand was a part of the earliest Mass. Ally, when you get to this part what I would do is, instead of cringing from it, emphasize it and think of what the words actually mean and tell yourself that the small minds of those who tried to hurt you and your mother will not deter you from the worthy and loving worship of God. After all you are speaking to God the Father and I know that you mean the words so say them happily and galliantly with love in your heart and voice.  

God bless.
Whit

[/quote]

Thank you Whit! Your response was not only informative but I could read real Catholic love and concern in your words. I appreciate all the research you did to come up with an answer that satisfies me completely. How do I go about giving you a gold star?


#12

[quote=ally]Thank you Whit! Your response was not only informative but I could read real Catholic love and concern in your words. I appreciate all the research you did to come up with an answer that satisfies me completely. How do I go about giving you a gold star?
[/quote]

You just did! :blessyou:

Whit


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