For those who claim Protestants don't believe Scripture interprets Scripture


#1

Yes, hard to believe, but some Protestants have now claimed “Scripture interprets Scripture” is not a Protestant belief nor an aspect of sola scriptura.

Here are some links (CTRL-F and enter “scripture interprets scripture” to jump right to it):

osl.cc/believe/unit1.html

scriptureinterpretsscriptureministries.com/

spirithome.com/scriptur.html

spirithome.com/bible_authority.html

amazon.com/Knowing-Scripture-R-C-Sproul/dp/0877847339

amazon.com/Treasury-Scripture-Knowledge-R-Torrey/dp/0917006224

home.earthlink.net/~ronrhodes/Interpretation.html

watersblogged.blogspot.com/2005/01/scripture-interprets-scripture.html

crivoice.org/methods.html

That’s just the first results in a Google search of “Scripture interprets Scripture”.

Here’s that papist Wikipedia on the subject:

Sola scriptura (Latin ablative, “by scripture alone”) is the assertion that the Bible as God’s written word is self-authenticating, clear (perspicuous) to the rational reader, its own interpreter (“Scripture interprets Scripture”), and sufficient of itself to be the final authority of Christian doctrine.

In any case, if anyone wishes to claim that Protestants DON’T believe that “Scripture interprets Scripture”, a claim which we’re testing in another thread, then kindly discuss it in THIS thread.


#2

The thought comes to mind that it doesn’t matter what Protestants believe in general. To you, I would think that all that should matter is what is believed by those you are discussing things with, right? If your goal is to convince those you discuss with of the righteousness of your beliefs, then you should be addressing what those you discuss with actually believe.

This, of course, assumes you don’t simply have an axe to grind against Protestantism (either from anger or over-zealousness), which I sincerely hope is a truthful assumption.

So, wouldn’t it be better to start a new discussion and cover what the Protestants on this forum actually believe, rather than covering stereotypes that I have yet to see truly supported here?


#3

Some believe scripture interprets scripture some don’t but the point on the other thread is how you have twisted, I guess intentionally, the WCF to make it say something it stops far short of.

I guess that’s okay to do in your rule book :shrug: …anything in defense of mother church.


#4

Good to see you gentlemen show up.

It’s not surprising you don’t wish to discuss the topic you claimed to in the other thread you tried to derail.

Seems the only purpose was to derail THAT thread, eh?


#5

Not really. I am, however, getting tired of the bait and switch tactics. You started a thread on a faulty premise, that even if you managed to prove, wouldn’t accomplish anything. Likewise, this thread is the same.

What is your purpose here? To try to attack Protestantism in general, or to convince those of us who you’re attacking that you’re right? If so, it would help to start with what we actually believe, and not what you wish we believed. To do otherwise is essentially to set up a straw-man argument.

So, are you going to do something productive (like trying to find out what we actually believe, and then go from there), or are you going to continue on doing something that doesn’t really help any sort of discussion with us whatsoever? Do you care to try to convince us that you’re right? If not, what is your purpose for being here?


#6

a) I was a Protestant for 36 years, and a well-read and travelled one—I know what Protestants believe; to the extent such things are possible. How long were you a Catholic?

b) Your continual ad hominems are transparent and destroy your credibility, something you may wish to consider.

c) The purpose of my threads are laid out in the OPs. The purpose of this one, as stated, was to give you and Pwrfltr and the other Protestant derailers a place to discuss something you claimed to be important to discuss, which was OT and derailing the “Scirpture Interpreting Scripture Test” thread.

All of which you know.

But please feel free to argue the validity of “Scripture Interprets Scripture” in this thread.

As usual, you’ve engaged precisely zero of the evidence provided; and, as usual, you seem completely disinterested in staying on-topic.

You may want to refer to Forum Rules, which you break when you engage in such petty and transparent derailment efforts.


#7

Perhaps your failure to understand what Protestants believe Christ really taught is why you think so poorly of Protestants. Perhaps you simply didn’t grasp this even as a Protestant.

Oh, and it really doesn’t matter how long anyone here was a Roman Catholic – we’re not currently discussing a Roman Catholic belief, are we?

b) Your continual ad hominems are transparent and destroy your credibility, something you may wish to consider.

Your words speak for themselves, as do your actions. Mine do as well, and I have apologized for my over-zealous behavior in recent days toward you. If you’re unwilling to accept that, that’s up to you.

As for ad hominem attacks – would you care to cite one? I asked (sincerely and genuinely) what your purpose is here, because I really do want to know the answer (so I can determine if future discussion is worthwhile). It wasn’t an attack on you, and I’m sorry if it appeared that way.

c) The purpose of my threads are laid out in the OPs. The purpose of this one, as stated, was to give you and Pwrfltr and the other Protestant derailers a place to discuss something you claimed to be important to discuss, which was OT and derailing the “Scirpture Interpreting Scripture Test” thread.

Unless you’re intentionally not wishing to see it, I think it should be plainly obvious that there was no intentional derailing going on. To accuse us of something that we have pretty clearly stated was not the case is not at all charitable.

Now, would you please answer my question? What is it you hope to accomplish by your desired resolution of these threads (presumably, the conclusion that scripture, by itself, can be misinterpreted and that some Protestants do believe that scripture interprets itself)? What’s the goal? It seems to me that you don’t really care about my spiritual growth, or that of the other Protestants on this forum. If you’re not here to help genuinely-seeking people grow closer to God, then why are you here?

But please feel free to argue the validity of “Scripture Interprets Scripture” in this thread.

As usual, you’ve engaged precisely zero of the evidence provided; and, as usual, you seem completely disinterested in staying on-topic.

All right – a simple logical disproof of your position…

  1. Roman Catholics insist that Protestants don’t agree on anything.
  2. You’ve cited positions by some Protestant groups which espouse a position.
  3. Therefore, there must be several Protestant groups who disagree with that position.

Conclusion: Not all Protestants believe that scripture interprets itself.

And another…

  1. I have clearly stated to you that I don’t espouse your claimed position.
  2. I haven’t seen a single Protestant here who has agreed with it.

Conclusion: Protestants on this forum do not believe scripture interprets itself.

  1. Protestants on this forum do not believe scripture interprets itself.
  2. You insist on saying that we do.
  3. If you cared about our spiritual growth, you would at least consider what we have to say for our own beliefs.

Conclusion: You are not here for the purpose of trying to show us the truth.

You seem to be ignoring logic and reason, and for that reason, this will be the last post of mine in this thread. To clear things up…

I, as a Protestant, do not believe in sola scriptura.

Make whatever claim you wish as to my motives, but I’d say the fact that you’ve repeatedly refused to take up my suggested line of questioning (that is, finding out what Protestants on this forum believe, and then debating those issues with us) says your motives are the ones in question. But let the reader decide which he or she thinks is more probable.

You may want to refer to Forum Rules, which you break when you engage in such petty and transparent derailment efforts.

There are no derailment efforts to speak of, and thus, no violation of forum rules in that regard.


#8

Your misunderstanding of the WCF has nothing to do with how long you were affiliated w/ a certain theology.

Several other posters in the other thread also see that you are twisting the meaning of the WCF to suit your agenda.

Calling a spade a spade is not an ad hominem attack.


#9

You called me a liar, sir, which speaks volumes of your understanding of honor and your own inability to argue.

Since you do not know what “my agenda” may or may not be, and since I have already refuted your ridiculous argument of “twisting” the WCF — quoting it is hardly “twisting” it— and since you continue to derail this and other threads with your insinuations, your outrageous claims, and your utter failure to engage the topic, I’ll let you indict yourself from here on out.


#10

Another ad hominem. I do not think poorly of Protestants; as a matter of fact my wife and I have virtually no one BUT Protestants in our social circle, in our family, and indeed, they put you to shame in ability to reason and argue. They also know what they believe, something you evince confusion over when it suits you.

If you think you grasp Protestantism, sir, by all means start your own threads demonstrating your grasp of it. Protestantism being a many-headed hydra and a bubbling theological chaos, I look forward to the enlightenment which apparently eluded me despite decades in various denominations and hundreds of books and thousands of sermons.

Oh, and it really doesn’t matter how long anyone here was a Roman Catholic – we’re not currently discussing a Roman Catholic belief, are we?

Your ignorance of Catholicism has been amply displayed. This Forum being Catholic Answers, one presumes you’d be better-informed by now.

Your words speak for themselves, as do your actions. Mine do as well, and I have apologized for my over-zealous behavior in recent days toward you. If you’re unwilling to accept that, that’s up to you.

You strain charity by claiming your condescending, sneering bit of theater on the other thread to be an apology. It was not.

An apology, properly constructed, consists of:

A clear admission of your fault.
A clear statement of regret over your fault.
A promise to eschew such faults in the future.

THAT is an apology. Do not demean the term. I certainly hope that when you beg God’s forgiveness you do so properly.

As for ad hominem attacks – would you care to cite one? I asked (sincerely and genuinely) what your purpose is here, because I really do want to know the answer (so I can determine if future discussion is worthwhile). It wasn’t an attack on you, and I’m sorry if it appeared that way.

I’ll cite several:

a. Accusing me of twisting facts.
b. Accusing me of having dishonest motives in my posts.
c. Accusing me of thinking poorly of Protestants.

My purpose, as discussed numerous times, is laid out in the OP. You have been given an opportunity to discuss an issue you claim you want to discuss here. You have yet to discuss it.

Unless you’re intentionally not wishing to see it, I think it should be plainly obvious that there was no intentional derailing going on. To accuse us of something that we have pretty clearly stated was not the case is not at all charitable.

Ahh, and now I’ve been accused of being uncharitable.

Neither you nor Powerfltr engaged the other thread. You simply used every trick in the book to shut it down.

If the thread doesn’t interest you, move on. Trolling is bad form.

Now, would you please answer my question? What is it you hope to accomplish by your desired resolution of these threads (presumably, the conclusion that scripture, by itself, can be misinterpreted and that some Protestants do believe that scripture interprets itself)? What’s the goal? It seems to me that you don’t really care about my spiritual growth, or that of the other Protestants on this forum. If you’re not here to help genuinely-seeking people grow closer to God, then why are you here?

PCM, this may shock you, but the purpose of this Forum is not tied to YOUR spiritual growth. It is to explain the Catholic faith, and to compare the Catholic faith to non-Catholic faith. It is not my job to draw you closer to God. If you read enough Scripture, you will learn that God draws us to Him.


#11

All right – a simple logical disproof of your position…

  1. Roman Catholics insist that Protestants don’t agree on anything.

Actually, I launched a thread to test this very notion. Protestants agree on only the Nicene Creed—THAT was the outcome of that thread. Even that was tentative since there is a controversy over Nicene vs. Apostle’s Creed in some Baptist quarters.

So those Catholics who so insist (the Church does no such thing), need to provide evidence for which Protestants don’t agree with the Nicene Creed.

  1. You’ve cited positions by some Protestant groups which espouse a position.

You’ve lost the premise of your argument here. 2 is unrelated to 1.

  1. Therefore, there must be several Protestant groups who disagree with that position

If that position is not contained within the Creed, yes…

Conclusion: Not all Protestants believe that scripture interprets itself.

Does not follow from the premise.

The argument, properly constructed, would look like:

  1. Protestants agree only upon the Nicene Creed.
  2. The notion that “Scripture Interprets Itself” is not part of the Nicene Creed.
  3. Therefore, Protestants do not agree that “Scripture Interprets Itself”

Since that’s almost content neutral, the easier path is:

  1. [Denomination X] does not agree that “Scripture interprets itself.”
  2. [Denomination X] is a Protestant denomination.
  3. Therefore, not all Protestants agree that “Scripture interprets itself.”

And another…

  1. I have clearly stated to you that I don’t espouse your claimed position.
  2. I haven’t seen a single Protestant here who has agreed with it.

Conclusion: Protestants on this forum do not believe scripture interprets itself.

You really don’t understand logical reasoning.

Whether or not you see something doesn’t mean it isn’t there. Have you done an exhaustive search of this Forum? Are you the spokesman for all Protestants?

The fallacies abound.

  1. Protestants on this forum do not believe scripture interprets itself.
  2. You insist on saying that we do.
  3. If you cared about our spiritual growth, you would at least consider what we have to say for our own beliefs.

Conclusion: You are not here for the purpose of trying to show us the truth.

LOL----PCM, you don’t understand logic. Puttting statements in numerical sequence does not a logical argument make.

Find yourself a good course in argumentation and logic. It will help you far beyond apologetics; it helps clarify your thinking.

You seem to be ignoring logic and reason, and for that reason, this will be the last post of mine in this thread. To clear things up…

I, as a Protestant, do not believe in sola scriptura.

PCM, honestly, work on your argumentation skills. You need to hone them to avoid embarassing yourself in these kind of discussions.

You do realize that one does not self-nominate for inclusion within Protestant ranks, right? If a Muslim were to say, “I am a Protestant, and I believe Mohammed is the prophet of Allah”, would it follow that Protestants follow Mohammed? You do see the trouble.

Make whatever claim you wish as to my motives, but I’d say the fact that you’ve repeatedly refused to take up my suggested line of questioning (that is, finding out what Protestants on this forum believe, and then debating those issues with us) says your motives are the ones in question. But let the reader decide which he or she thinks is more probable.

So was it a suggestion or an order then? If the latter, PCM, you’ll need to establish your authority to give it.

And do review the Forum rules when you get a chance.

There are no derailment efforts to speak of, and thus, no violation of forum rules in that regard.

Constant off-topic discussion, insinuations as to motives, accusations, etc are all against Forum rules. Ask the mod if you like.


#12

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