For those who tend to believe the many mystics

Hi everyone - I completely “get” that following/believing even approved apparitions is not mandatory…but heres my question for those of us who have mystics we believe/follow…

Saint Faustina said that God gives us 8 chances, in our dying moment, to choose him (how beautiful!) One of the Medugorie mystics said in our dying moment we choose for ourselves - God shows us our lives and WE decide where we should be - its completely our choice. (Interesting thought) (and btw no need to point out the controversies re medagorie, I know all that lol!) I believe saint gertrude also said He comes to us in our dying breath…Im very interested in these ideas - and believe the mystics talked with God - but I wonder how much is their understanding/interpretation?

Then the visions of Hell - the mystics saw some SCARY stuff (and ofcourse its scary!) One priest, in an interview, said these types of visions are not “literal” - so, even if a mystic “saw” a fire, the fire could be representative…he was NOT saying take the revelation with a grain of salt…but more “think about what it represents”…

Maybe I dont even have a question per se, more discussion…I think about Faustina and the 8 chances…how do we “see” this? Literally 8? Or representative of His beautiful mercy, asking us again and again in our dying moment “will you take my mercy”?

Blessings!

I haven’t read most of these mystical prophesies so I can’t comment on them specifically. I think it was Pope Benedict who said something along the lines that Hell is very real and rather than it being a place, it’s an indication of the state of those separated from God, who is the source of all that is good, including joy.

Why can’t they all be right, even if they’ve seen imagery by way of explanation?

I have read Faustina’s diary and don’t recall the 8 times God comes to us at our death. Can you please provide a source that shows the exact quote and where it comes from?

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Sundy - good point about all being right! With different ways of seeing/expressions

Limoncello, Im at work (UK time) but will be home early and will find the pages in Faustina Diary…I think its one of the sections I bookmarked.

Blessings

Medjugorje is an unapproved private revelation. The TOS for this forum prohibits us posting material from unapproved private revelations. Therefore we cannot post or discuss about stuff the Medj visionaries allegedly saw.

It’s okay to talk about St. Faustina’s revelations as those are approved.

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Limoncello - so I got the number “8” from a video of one of the priests who work with The Marians of the Immaculate Conception…it “may” have been Gaitley, it may be Alar (Ive watched loads of their videos)…I’m 95 percent sure he said 8! He was on quite a high about it! So I remember going bank to my Faustina diary and trying to find the passage…now, Im not sure where it is! Its possible he is referring to 1486 where the Lorddoffers mercy and grace 4 times to a despairing soul (if you count it up)…but 4 is not 8 lol! I need to go now and find that video!!! To prove to myself Im not making things up…it might mean watching all of Father Gaitleys and Father Alars videos again! :blush: (which I dont mind…)

Tisbear - thanks for that reminder…

This is not what she recorded in her Diary, #1698. The priest who stated this was incorrect, or else you misunderstood him. Here is the passage and link.

I often attend upon the dying and through entreaties obtain for them trust in God’s mercy, and I implore God for an abundance of divine grace, which is always victorious. God’s mercy sometimes touches the sinner at the last moment in a wondrous and mysterious way. Outwardly, it seems as if everything were lost, but it is not so. The soul, illumined by a ray of God’s powerful final grace, turns to God in the last moment with such a power of love that, in an instant, it receives from God forgiveness of sin and punishment (1698).

Following is what the article left out from that same passage:

… while outwardly it shows no sign either of repentance or contrition, because souls at that stage no longer react to external things.
But horror! There are also souls who consciously reject and scorn this grace!
Although a person is at the point of death, the merciful God gives the soul that interior vivid moment (not 8 moments) so that if the soul is willing, it has the possibility of returning to God. But sometimes, the obduracy in souls is so great that consciously they choose hell.

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Thanks Sirach 2 great link! However I think the priest Im referring to was referencing 1486…where God had the conversation with the despairing soul…he tells the soul a 1st, 2nd, then 3rd time to accept his mercy, then (if the soul still dithering) the 4th time swamps him with His grace, giving that soul a last chance.

Anyway, numbers aside, I find all this SO interesting…the whole mystical thing…how much is interpretation…what we do if approved mytics “seem to” say contradictory things…etc…

I’m not seeing a 4th time in that passage. Here is the link.

It reads:

In her Diary , St. Faustina gives us a mystical insight into what our judgment may be like. She writes of Jesus calling to the soul not once, but three times. If the soul remains unresponsive, whether hardened or despairing, here’s what happens:
Then the mercy of God begins to exert itself, and, without any co-operation from the soul, God grants it final grace. If this too is spurned, God will leave the soul in this self-chosen disposition for eternity. This grace emerges from the merciful Heart of Jesus and gives the soul a special light by means of which the soul begins to understand God’s effort; but conversion depends on its own will. The soul knows that this, for her, is final grace and, should it show even a flicker of good will, the mercy of God will accomplish the rest (1486).

It confirms, as you suspected, that there are not 8 opportunities to repent, but three. This seems to contradict #1698, so it probably is best not to quote it to anyone, due to its uncertainty, other than perhaps to say that God is most merciful and may afford the dying soul an opportunity to repent.

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Ah its actually 4 times - look again - 3 and then 1 final epic opportunity lol!!! But I think at the end of the day, mystics, even within their own writing, can “look” contradictory…but the overall message of the diary is Gods overwhelming mercy…I absolutely read that as 4, you read it as 3, and the earlier passage said 1, and “some” marian priest, at some point, may have said 8…so I think the message we take…its all about His mercy (and our free will to accept…) ps - go straight to the diary to 1486…think you will see the “4”…and its beautiful in its entiry…)

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On a somewhat related note…I know there approved apparirions (church has actively said its fine to believe it), and apparitions where no judgment has been proclaimed by the Church (and we make our own judgment, with an understanding we dont yet have the full approval)…are there “famous” ones the Church has actively condemned?

This site will show the status of Vatican-approved, Bishop-approved, and you’ll note the huge number of unapproved ones.

The purpose of mysticism isn’t to establish dogmatic facts. It’s to take us deeper into holiness. Mysticism is expressed in different “flavors” according to the person experiencing it.
St Faustina’s mystical experience will vary widely from that of others.

I try to gain big-picture essentials from mysticism. From St Faustina’ diary; that God’s mercy is unfathomable in it’s depth and constancy, and that God wants us to rely on his mercy no matter the depth of our spiritual state.

For me, worrying about the mechanics of things is distracting. But that’s just me.

Thanks sirach2 for the great link…there seem to be more “no decisions” than “negative decisions”… (well from my initial quick scrolling) Im interested in reading about some of the more obscure ones…

Goout - thank you for that…good points…

In addition there are “traditionally approved” ones shown on that site which are considered approved.

Also, any private revelation to a saint or beati is considered approved.

God is sometimes referred to as the “hound of heaven”. He will pursue the soul, and he won’t give up. WE can choose to reject his Love, but he won’t stop trying, up to the last second of our life, to get us to come to him.

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