"forced to commit adultery"


#143

So why are you unable to join the dots re a Catholic remarried wife paying the debt for her sincere Protestant first time married husband who cannot understand her desire to abstain for the same reason?
She is no more cooperating in an immoral act of adultery than you or I cooperating in an act of contraception with a “renegade” wife right?

Both are equally grave objective moral evils.


#144

If my 21 yr daughter has no support person or driver to take her to the abortion centre for her procedure does mum, who is staunchly against abortion but fears for her mental health, get auto excommunicated also?
What is she excommunicated for? See Canon 2272.


#145

…so the king of England was a cheapskate that did not want to cough up some gold coins, order some in his court to break out some teeth and claim a migraine?

Maran atha!

Angel


#146

…wait, so abortion is the medicine for women’s mental health–is that like chocolate/sex to relieve a headache?

Maran atha!

Angel


#147

I think its time someone suggested to you that mannerisms and styles that work in live verbal debate may not always come off as well in a written time based forum.


#148

…so I should not respond, unless I’m addressed directly or I should not post queries or I should only post if I agree with what is being stated?

Regardless (or should I have typed, irregardless) of the reason–I truly apologize if you feel maligned in any way.

Maran atha!

Angel


#149

Cf. Post #147


#150

I contacted the diocese about any valid reasons a priest can advice using contraception, NOT about the scenario of one spouse unwilling to cooperate in the contraception. I was told “No”. Please stop convalidating the separate issues.

If you wish to convince me, you will need evidence. This continuous game of condescending comments is not helping you.


#151

I’ve no idea what you are talking about.


#152

Assisting a pregnant woman to receive an abortion is very wrong! Shame


#153

5 pages? Are we both looking at the document linked earlier, which has only limited coverage of the “unwilling” spouse scenario?


#154

I also cannot imagine any valid reason for a person to use contraception. A man may not put on a condom and have sex because his wife wants contraception. But under some circumstances, a man may have sex with his wife who (he knows) is taking the pill.


#155

I agree. And still, the Church will never “allow” contraception. That is a dangerous and crafty interpretation, which BF is purporting as “higher educated clergy” are correctly understanding.


#156

That parent would be advised to seek mental health treatment for the daughter. An abortion is not mental health treatment.


#157

They arent condescending.
I am observing cognitive dissonances in your overall appreciation of contraceptive teaching and your responses on different aspects.
This usually happens when its a very personal issue that hasnt been fully assimilated. From your history of posts on CAF and your unusual step of writing to the Bishop for answers re your own situation and your disagreement with your PP this does seem to be the case.
My apologies if you think this comes across as condescending. Most people are glad when their friends try and tell them they can see signs on their back that they cannot be expected to see. If you cannot take this then maybe it would be good to be a little less dogmatic in your views on this topic or maybe just observe the debate. I am sure Jesus has other supporters here if you think some of us are mistaken.


#158

You seem to have misunderstood the content, and the reason for making the analogy to a husband choosing to cooperate with his contracepting wife instead of abstaining.


#159

So why wouldnt you be ashamed to assist your wife if she was contracepting?
If the mother should abstain from assisting her daughter why wouldnt a husband abstain from joining his wife in contracepting?


#160

King or not, who in their right mind would willingly want to go through the nightmares of marriage prep / divorce and or annulment through the Church, I’d rather go to the dentist every day than go through that mess and then on top of that be told im a " sinner " and oh by the way here is the bill.

But yes Heads of state even know better than to play that game.


#161

Try pulling that section out and see if it can be accurately interpretted without the lead up and some of the following.
But I am ok if you want to call me mistaken and my point wholly invalid for getting the number of pages wrong :slightly_smiling_face:.


#162

Lets get real RC.
If you knowingly and freely choose to have the marital embrace with a renegade contracepting wife (ie contracepting, not just taking hormone therapy Pill) then you too have chosen to engage in a contraceptive sexual act.
You also are contracepting. Its your sperm she is rejecting not somebody elses.

In fact it could be argued, like the Congo nuns, that such a wife may not be contracepting at all. If she doesnt want to have sex at the moment with her husband (perhaps she is resentful of his infidelity) but her husband clearly wants the marital debt regardless…then she is protecting herself from consequences of an act she has never fully agreed to.

Knowing these things, and rejecting the Valemecum the only moral choice left is to abstain.

What other choice is there if such a one rejects his priest’s pastoral advice?


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