[quote="dailey, post:2, topic:227843"]
Actually, this is a "how far is too far" thread. ;)
My thoughts are your wife probably won't even be in the mood for any physical contact. :shrug:
I said its not the normal how far is to far thread, lol. Just trying to say that there is some extra detail so people don't just ignore it, lol.
You sure are right that my wife is not in the mood for it at all right now. I'm guessing at least a few more weeks like this. That's why I'm asking now. Its easier to think rationally when I do it ahead of time rather than wait. :)
[quote="SummerSmiles, post:3, topic:227843"]
I would think that if whatever you are doing is leading you or her to become aroused, that's a line you shouldn't cross. So, if you can kiss each other without getting aroused, that's fine. "Heavy petting" type of things are meant for arousal, so those should probably be avoided. There are plenty of ways to show your love for each other without sex--like back rubs, holding hands, even putting your arm around her while you're sitting on the couch, for example.
I thought about this to. One problem I find is this...I find my wife EXTREMELY attractive and arousing. She is often sleeping with out any "bottoms" because of one of her incisions is right at her pants line. We sleep quite closely and that (especially since its been awhile since we've had sex) can be quite arousing. Do I avoid sleeping in the same bed as her? I sure hope not!
Some days we are both getting ready for the day. I see her getting in and out of the shower. Clearly an arousing situation (for me at least). Do I avoid seeing this? The list goes on and on. lol. I hate to see my attraction to her and desire for her as a curse but at least for the next couple months its starting to seem that way :shrug:
[quote="twoangels, post:4, topic:227843"]
Gregory Popcak and the Creighton method of NFP have a good chapter on SPICE - loving each other spiritually, physically, intellectually...I forgot what CE is. I always forget that. Basically it expands how you express your love and mkes you creative to see expressions of love as beyond what would typically be cosidered sexual. Granted, that said, my husband and I have always prayed the liturgy of the hours togther. I've always found it intimate, but when we were dating it always helped us to stay chate. Now lately when we pray the hours I have trouble keeping my hands off of him. Maybe its just pregnancy hormones. But we tried doing the SPICE thing when we were engaged and I got all worked up simply from my husband (then fiance) taking the time to verbally tell me how wonderful and beautiful he thought I was.
about how when you're abstaining during marriage that more is permitted than when you are dating, but I think its ultimately something you have to figure out yourself a bit. Technically what I've been told by priests and what I've read is that you are permitted to do more because you are married, but ultimately you don't want to tempt yourself to substitute other behavior for intercourse. So its really not wise to get each other worked up to be REALLY wanting intercourse when you can't have it and then tempting yourselves to committing masturbatory sins.
But I've heard that treating it like you were dating can be unadvisable. I mean, I've seen that from the couple to couple league and I've heard that from very orthodox priests. Do I think that's the best advise? Well when my husband and I have had to abstain in our marriage, so far allowing ourselves more leeway tends to make things frustrating. My husband has requested that if we can't do it at all, things like my modesty needs to increase and we need to not make out and stuff like that, else I'm just putting him in a near occassion of sin. The key though I think is to try to not lead each other into other sins. So should it be like you're dating? I don't know. There are a lot of different opinions about what is appropriate in dating. I mean, while I could get really riled up, I never had a desire for intercourse before I was married. I could do plenty and stop like that, but I knew there was more to chastity than simply avoiding intercourse. I considered it immoral to get that intimate with my boyfriend. It wasn't just sinful to have sex with everything else being a near occassion of sin. I saw it as sinful to do a lot of other sexual stuff independant of intercourse. But I've noticed not everyone sees it that way and just sees it as avoiding near occassions of sin.
So being that there are so many different prospectives on what chastity entails when you're single, its hard to just say whether or not it should be like when you were dating or not.
I mean, I think the real problem is that most Catholics read the definition of chastity in the Catechism, find it confusing and then live with an entirely different understanding of chastity in their brains. I don't think its a virtue we completely understand and I think too often we can't break away from attitudes that "intercourse is bad" or that "sexual pleasure is bad but morally necessary for making babies." etc. I think the advise we give tends to surround how we preceive what chastity is, but I don't see a lot of discussion about what it is, only what behaviors are forbidden and arguments about it, disagreements on it, etc. And I'm talking among those who are loyal to the magistrium.
I'll have to look into this "SPICE" teachings. Thanks for all the great advice!
I was thinking I could just treat it like the part in the bible (sorry I am awful at chapter/verse quotes) that says its ok for a husband and wife to not have sex for a period of time to give themselves more over to God.
I can Avoid all sexually arousing activity and every time I start thinking about her that way say some prayers. The only danger here would be I think God would get tired of hearing my near constant prayers! (just kidding of course).