Forgive my ignorance


#1

Exactly how many Catholic Churches are there?

Roman Catholic
Greek Orthodox
Byzantine Catholic
Western, Eastern, Latin?

Huh? What? Who? Where?


#2

[quote=Dimmers]Exactly how many Catholic Churches are there?

Roman Catholic
Greek Orthodox
Byzantine Catholic
Western, Eastern, Latin?

Huh? What? Who? Where?
[/quote]

There is also the Old Catholic Church of Utrecht, Netherlands, and any number of independent “autocephalous” (not answering to Rome) Catholic Churches. The Roman Church sometimes refers to these jurisdictions as “schismatics.”


#3

[quote=Dimmers]Exactly how many Catholic Churches are there?

Roman Catholic
Greek Orthodox
Byzantine Catholic
Western, Eastern, Latin?

Huh? What? Who? Where?
[/quote]

Greek Orthodox would be schismatic. Are you referring to how many rites there are under the barque of Peter?


#4

mncuf.org/rites.htm

andrew.cmu.edu/user/newman/Pages/fr-catholicrites.html

There are like twenty different “churches”, all in union under Rome. All of them are Catholic. There are other churches who call themselves Catholic, but aren’t really because they are not in union with Rome. Some of these are the “Old Catholics” the “Polish Catholics” and others. The other poster was right when he siad we refer to them as schismatic. Both of these links can explain further…Rebecca


#5

[quote=Eden]Greek Orthodox would be schismatic. Are you referring to how many rites there are under the barque of Peter?
[/quote]

What about the Russian Orthodox? :confused:


#6

[quote=Rebecca New]What about the Russian Orthodox? :confused:
[/quote]

Schismatic.

It is the “Eastern Rite” churches that are in union with Rome. Anything with the word “Orthodox” is not in union with Rome.

hurst


#7

[quote=Dimmers]Exactly how many Catholic Churches are there?

Roman Catholic
Greek Orthodox
Byzantine Catholic
Western, Eastern, Latin?

Huh? What? Who? Where?
[/quote]

Dimmers,

Thank you for your question and there is no need to ask for forgiveness. Honest questions are always welcome.

There are many churches that call themselves Catholic, but there is only one Catholic Church. Inside the Catholic Church are several “rites” or sub-organizations, if you will, but they are all in full communion with the Pope. These include the Latin Rite (commonly called “Roman Catholic”), the Syro-Malabar Rite, the Ukrainian Rite, the Byzantine Rite, and others.

Outside the Catholic Church are the other churches that have the word “Catholic” in their name. The Old Catholic Church, for example, schismed off the Catholic Church after Vatican I a century and a half ago. They have valid holy orders, not having lost the apostolic succession, but they are not in union with the Pope. The English Catholic Church, commonly called the Anglican Church or the Church of England, schismed off the Catholic Church under King Henry VIII a few hundred years ago. They lost the Apostolic Succession about a century after they split off and have not gotten it back, although they will tell you differently. I daresay there are many other splinter “Catholic” churches as well.

The Orthodox Churches–Russian Orthodox, Greek Orthodox, and others–schismed off of the Catholic Church in 1054 over what I think were largely political issues. This was called “the Great Schism” and was less the Orthodox schisming off than it was Christendom splitting into two pieces. (If you ask the Orthodox, they will tell you that the Catholic Church schismed off of them, and they will be as correct as I am in my first sentence in this paragraph.) They are not in union with the Catholic Church although they do have valid holy orders.

I hope this helps.

  • Liberian

#8

[quote=beckyann2597]mncuf.org/rites.htm

andrew.cmu.edu/user/newman/Pages/fr-catholicrites.html

There are like twenty different “churches”, all in union under Rome. All of them are Catholic. There are other churches who call themselves Catholic, but aren’t really because they are not in union with Rome. Some of these are the “Old Catholics” the “Polish Catholics” and others. The other poster was right when he siad we refer to them as schismatic. Both of these links can explain further…Rebecca
[/quote]

Churches with valid Apostolic Succession, an episcopate, and the Sacraments are indeed “Catholic” (“universal”). One does not need to be in communion with Rome to be considered Catholic, rather that would be the requirement for one to be “Roman” Catholic. Schisms do not invalidate these jurisdictions that remain a part of Christ’s One, Holy and Apostolic Church, they just don’t necessarily answer to the Pope.


#9

[quote=ReformedCatholic]Churches with valid Apostolic Succession, an episcopate, and the Sacraments are indeed “Catholic” (“universal”). One does not need to be in communion with Rome to be considered Catholic, rather that would be the requirement for one to be “Roman” Catholic. Schisms do not invalidate these jurisdictions that remain a part of Christ’s One, Holy and Apostolic Church, they just don’t necessarily answer to the Pope.
[/quote]

Why do so many people mistakenly believe that only “Roman” i.e. Latin Rite Catholics are in communion with Rome? WHY???


#10

[quote=Eden]Why do so many people mistakenly believe that only “Roman” i.e. Latin Rite Catholics are in communion with Rome? WHY???
[/quote]

LOL, my mistake. I meant to preface that with “as an example…”


#11

[quote=Dimmers]Exactly how many Catholic Churches are there?

Roman Catholic
Greek Orthodox
Byzantine Catholic
Western, Eastern, Latin?

Huh? What? Who? Where?
[/quote]

One.

There are liturgical rites within the one Church. Eastern Orthodox, however, are schismatic and not part of the Church. Christ did not establish multiple competing systems of truth.

In the lesser usage of the term, such as in assemblies, the local church diocese, or as in “church” buildings, there can be many occurrences all united in the one faith.


#12

[quote=DeFide]One.

There are liturgical rites within the one Church. Eastern Orthodox, however, are schismatic and not part of the Church. Christ did not establish multiple competing systems of truth.

In the lesser usage of the term, such as in assemblies, the local church diocese, or as in “church” buildings, there can be many occurrences all united in the one faith.
[/quote]

And the Eastern Orthodox would say the same about the Latin Rite. So I guess it’s a matter of perspective.


#13

[quote=ReformedCatholic]And the Eastern Orthodox would say the same about the Latin Rite. So I guess it’s a matter of perspective.
[/quote]

It’s not a matter of perspective. It’s a matter of historical truth. A headless collection of equal churches didn’t exist before the schism, and just plain doesn’t make logical sense.

I’m still waiting for the Eastern Orthodox to iron out how many books are in the Bible. Oh wait, without a supreme governing authority, they can’t.


#14

By the way, RWD, you might want to change your profile. If a stranger asked you where the Catholic Church meets, you wouldn’t dare point to your own church.

Be honest.


#15

[quote=DeFide]It’s not a matter of perspective. It’s a matter of historical truth. A headless collection of equal churches didn’t exist before the schism, and just plain doesn’t make logical sense.

I’m still waiting for the Eastern Orthodox to iron out how many books are in the Bible. Oh wait, without a supreme governing authority, they can’t.
[/quote]

If I were Eastern Orthodox, I might be offended. You disagree with them so you make fun of them? You call that Christian/Catholic? And passing judement, inherently condemning?

Or maybe its that they don’t need a “supreme governing authority” to do their thinking for them. Maybe they recognize that a religion is meant to grow and evolve rather than stagnate and decay. Maybe even they think their members should be active participants in the church rather than passive, submissive receptacles of the latest “declaration?”

Maybe Christ intended for his Church to sprout many branches and grown in different directions so that it could have the farthest reach? Or do you know what Christ’s strategic plan was?

A lot of possibilities, wouldn’t you say?


#16

[quote=ReformedCatholic]If I were Eastern Orthodox, I might be offended. You disagree with them so you make fun of them? You call that Christian/Catholic? And passing judement, inherently condemning?

Or maybe its that they don’t need a “supreme governing authority” to do their thinking for them. Maybe they recognize that a religion is meant to grow and evolve rather than stagnate and decay. Maybe even they think their members should be active participants in the church rather than passive, submissive receptacles of the latest “declaration?”

Maybe Christ intended for his Church to sprout many branches and grown in different directions so that it could have the farthest reach? Or do you know what Christ’s strategic plan was?

A lot of possibilities, wouldn’t you say?
[/quote]

If you are Orthodox you have something to say about this. If you are not, well, it’s kind of funny to see a Protestant arguing for the Orthodox. Protestants “reformed” from the Catholic Church. Remember? You make whatever Protestant church you belong to even less legitimate when you offer Orthodox defenses. If you are Protestant, go on the Eastern Religions forum and see what they think about Protestants.


#17

[quote=DeFide]By the way, RWD, you might want to change your profile. If a stranger asked you where the Catholic Church meets, you wouldn’t dare point to your own church.

Be honest.
[/quote]

Right. Get the logs ready. Burn me at the stake.

Another “Christian” comment? “Christian” ridicule?

By the way, DeFide, you might want to change your entire being. If a stranger asked you where a Christian/Catholic was, you wouldn’t dare point to yourself. Don’t you think?


#18

[quote=ReformedCatholic]If I were Eastern Orthodox, I might be offended. You disagree with them so you make fun of them? You call that Christian/Catholic? And passing judement, inherently condemning?

Or maybe its that they don’t need a “supreme governing authority” to do their thinking for them. Maybe they recognize that a religion is meant to grow and evolve rather than stagnate and decay. Maybe even they think their members should be active participants in the church rather than passive, submissive receptacles of the latest “declaration?”

Maybe Christ intended for his Church to sprout many branches and grown in different directions so that it could have the farthest reach? Or do you know what Christ’s strategic plan was?

A lot of possibilities, wouldn’t you say?
[/quote]

I’m not making fun of them. You assume far too much. What precisely am I “condemning” them to? :rolleyes:

In case you haven’t noticed, their lack of governing authority is precisely what has caused their doctrinal paralysis and slow decay… quite the opposite of what you assume. You seem to think they operate as Protestants do. Very wrong. They do have a hierarchy, with a distinct separation of laity and the ordained, but they don’t have a supreme governing authority to call or definitively ratify ecumenical councils, which is why they haven’t had any since the schism.

You should stick to Protestant issues.


#19

[quote=ReformedCatholic]Right. Get the logs ready. Burn me at the stake.

Another “Christian” comment? “Christian” ridicule?

By the way, DeFide, you might want to change your entire being. If a stranger asked you where a Christian/Catholic was, you wouldn’t dare point to yourself. Don’t you think?
[/quote]

Where did DeFide say “Christian”? He is referring to the fact that you call yourself a “Reformed Catholic” yet you would not point to your church (Lutheran?) if asked where the Catholic Church was.


#20

[quote=Eden]If you are Orthodox you have something to say about this. If you are not, well, it’s kind of funny to see a Protestant arguing for the Orthodox. Protestants “reformed” from the Catholic Church. Remember? You make whatever Protestant church you belong to even less legitimate when you offer Orthodox defenses. If you are Protestant, go on the Eastern Religions forum and see what they think about Protestants.
[/quote]

LOL, I’m not Protestand. Maybe you don’t understand what Catholic means.

“Less legitimate”… Goodness, love and acceptance all around! No passing judgement here? Better duck those stones!

I wasn’t arguing any particular faith, I was making a point.


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