Therefore, Jesus did ask for the grace of forgiveness. His prayer was
surely heard, for at the very moment he was painfully earning the very
thing he asked for. And of course, since he knew he was/is God, he himself
granted what he himself asked.
This part of the link really spoke to me.
even though Jesus shows a heroically kind
disposition, we cannot believe that he was almost giving permission in
advance to sin by not asking for repentance as a condition of forgiveness.
So we must take refuge in some distinctions. It is one thing for Jesus, for
the Father, to be willing to forgive; it is quite another thing for the
sinner to actually take in, to receive the forgiveness. For what is
forgiveness? It is not, as Luther thought, a merely forensic or external
thing, declaring innocent or “acquitting” one who really is still totally
corrupt inside. Rather, forgiveness means the infusion of grace into the
soul, to really make it holy; forgiveness does not mean simply “acquitting”
the guilty, while leaving them totally corrupt.
That said a lot to me. I deal quite often with the once saved always saved crowd and their theology never makes sense to me. What Father says here says so much more, God will forgive us but we have to take that forgiveness into our hearts for it to take hold.
One needs to consider God’s gift which is the requirement of intellective free choice.
**CCC 1730 **God created man a rational being, conferring on him the dignity of a person who can initiate and control his own actions. “God willed that man should be ‘left in the hand of his own counsel,’ so that he might of his own accord seek his Creator and freely attain his full and blessed perfection by cleaving to him.”
[INDENT]Man is rational and therefore like God; he is created with free will and is master over his acts.
Practically speaking, we need to consider that the term predestination would follow the knowledge gained by knowing the choice of an individual. It is the individual’s active choice to seek one’s Creator in order to attain the Beatific Vision which predestines the individual for heaven.
Jesus saying this has never really made sense to me…if the people had realized why Jesus was being crucified, I highly doubt any of them would change their minds, I mean, he was going thru all this FOR US, to die for ALL our sins, and plus, it was Gods plan all along, so asking forgiveness for them for essentially going along (playing their part) with Gods plan doesnt seem sinful in the least.
What would the world be like if they had realized and stopped the whole thing, and began treating Jesus like a king? He would have never been able to die for our sins and in the process throw a big wrench into Gods plan.
Before Jesus was born into this world, God already had this plan ready to go, he knew Jesus was going to be crucified, the whole point of this was for us, to die for our sins, I dont see how ‘facilitating’ this plan, would be sinful in anyway.
If they had not done this, Jesus would have never died for our sins…where would that have left the world?
I understand what Jesus was trying to say though, if the people knew who he really was, they would not be crucifying him, but its really about why he was being crucified imo.
Pilate had given it over to the Roman soldiers and they were required to obey orders. Even had they chose to stop the crucifiction, I don’t know if Jesus would have lived after they removed the nails holding him to the cross. I don’t image they would be very gentle tring to pull nails out of wood, behind flesh. My brother-in-law, nailed his foot to the floor using his nail gun and said the worst was not the nailing, but trying to pull the nail out.
For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the first-born among many brethren.
And those whom he predestined he also called; and those whom he called he also justified; and those whom he justified he also glorified.
Therefore, as Paul writes, God doesn’t predestine first regardless of one’s choices they will make. That would mean God predestines souls to hell regardless of their choices. That’s the heresy of double predestination that Calvin taught.
Therefore, before creation, God knows every person who will ever live, and their every choice they will make till the end of their life. Then knowing that, He predestines THAT.
Meaning He knows before the beginning of time, who is written in the book of life and who isn’t.
The Father and the Son are not the same Person. They are distinct. When we say Jesus is God we are not saying God and Jesus are identical. It is like saying John is human. We are not saying that John’s identity is human. Human is his nature. But, John is not himself identical with humanity, since he is only one human. Likewise we are saying Jesus has a divine nature. And really it is the Trinity that is identical with God. Jesus is a part of that Trinity. But, by himself is not identical to it. So saying Jesus is God describes his nature, not his identity.
I will let Jesus answer. Think. Jesus is speaking out loud for a reason. He is not speaking privately to the Father. Otherwise he would not have spoken out loud for us to know about.
“Jesus answered, “This voice has come for your sake, not mine.” (John 12:30)
Look at the inexpressable love Jesus displays on the Cross. Not only is he expressing mercy for his persecutors while he is suffering on the Cross, he is displaying the love and mercy that is intrinsic within the Trinity itself.