Forum on Tolerance to Muslims

In this news article, U.N. Sec. General Kofi Annan is speaking out against Islamophobia caused, he says, by the actions of a few extremist Muslims. He further states that

“Muslims themselves, especially, should speak out, as so many did following the September 11 attacks on the United States, and show a commitment to isolate those who preach or practice violence, and to make it clear that these are unacceptable distortions of Islam.”

But I don’t remember hearing any Muslims speaking out after September 11. I don’t remember any of them trying to explain what is going on as a distortion. Am I missing something, or is Kofi?

Kofi’s missing something - his elevator “up” button. He would better serve himself if he talked of scandalphobia of those that look at the UN with a suspect eye.

The extremist Muslims read the Koran and do what it says. The moderate but serious practicing Muslims read the Koran and silently sympathize with the terrorist. The cafeteria Muslims condemn the terrorist attacks and then run for the hills and change religions so as to not get their head chopped off.

QUOTE]Kofi’s missing something - his elevator “up” button. He would better serve himself if he talked of scandalphobia
:rotfl:

The extremist Muslims read the Koran and do what it says. The moderate but serious practicing Muslims read the Koran and silently sympathize with the terrorist. The cafeteria Muslims condemn the terrorist attacks and then run for the hills and change religions so as to not get their head chopped off.

The nail on the head, except the cafeteria kind don’t PUBLICLY condemn the attacks, and silently sympathize with America.

I know after Theo van Gogh here was murdered by an extreme muslim, even the same day a lot of muslims spoke up against violence here. There have been protestmarches of muslims against violence here, Germany, Norway or Danemark. Maybe even more countries.

Emmy

[quote=Cherub]In this news article, U.N. -----------
But I don’t remember hearing any Muslims speaking out after September 11. I don’t remember any of them trying to explain what is going on as a distortion. Am I missing something, or is Kofi?
[/quote]

You are right the only time I have heard any Muslim come even close to speaking out against the radical Islamist is when they say we don’t condone what they are doing but we understand their frustration with the US. I don’t understand it and don’t want to. The sooner we realize that this is not a war against terrorism but a war against radicl Islamist the sooner we will win it.

[quote=Emmy]I know after Theo van Gogh here was murdered by an extreme muslim, even the same day a lot of muslims spoke up against violence here. There have been protestmarches of muslims against violence here, Germany, Norway or Danemark. Maybe even more countries.

Emmy
[/quote]

Yep, it’s AMAZING how much more aware we become when OUR ox is gored…er beheaded.

Daniel Pipes has a website where he discusses Islam in the world. He says that moderates will never speak out against the fanatics. They are weak and they are afraid. Frankly given how nutty the Islamofascists have been, with good reason.

I think though as other countries are directly impacted such as with the Theo van Gogh case, we will see more of them speaking out.

Lisa N

[quote=Cherub]In this news article, U.N. Sec. General Kofi Annan is speaking out against Islamophobia caused, he says, by the actions of a few extremist Muslims. He further states that

“Muslims themselves, especially, should speak out, as so many did following the September 11 attacks on the United States, and show a commitment to isolate those who preach or practice violence, and to make it clear that these are unacceptable distortions of Islam.”

But I don’t remember hearing any Muslims speaking out after September 11. I don’t remember any of them trying to explain what is going on as a distortion. Am I missing something, or is Kofi?

[/quote]

I believe *you *are missing something, not Mr Kofi Annan. There were numerous American Muslims speaking out against 9/11 in the press and on television. In Seattle, which is near where I live, there were numerous public actions taken by local Muslims to show solidarity with Americans against terrorism and to educate the public about Islam. Many Muslim academics all across the country have written letters and articles attempting to educate the American public about the true nature of Islam. Americans refuse to hear! I know numerous Muslims who condemn the terrorists and speak out as often as they can. There is a wealth of information for the American people if they are truly interested in *learning *about Islam and how American Muslims actually feel about terrorism. The problem is many Americans have no desire to learn anything that contradicts their misinformed *opinions. :banghead: *

[quote=NightRider]I believe *you *are missing something, not Mr Kofi Annan. There were numerous American Muslims speaking out against 9/11 in the press and on television. In Seattle, which is near where I live, there were numerous public actions taken by local Muslims to show solidarity with Americans against terrorism and to educate the public about Islam. Many Muslim academics all across the country have written letters and articles attempting to educate the American public about the true nature of Islam. Americans refuse to hear! I know numerous Muslims who condemn the terrorists and speak out as often as they can. There is a wealth of information for the American people if they are truly interested in *learning *about Islam and how American Muslims actually feel about terrorism. The problem is many Americans have no desire to learn anything that contradicts their misinformed *opinions. :banghead: *
[/quote]

I just don’t agree. Oh, I agree there are alot of misinformed and ignorant Americans. But I DO NOT agree that there is a big Muslim outcry to stop terrorism against innocents.

Listen I would LOVE for it to be the case. In fact I am SEARCHING for some groundswell of dissent within the Muslin ranks to marginalize Islamasists, if by “numerous” you mean “your circle of friends” then your anedoteal evidence is not what I’m looking for.

[quote=jlw]I just don’t agree. Oh, I agree there are alot of misinformed and ignorant Americans. But I DO NOT agree that there is a big Muslim outcry to stop terrorism against innocents.

Listen I would LOVE for it to be the case. In fact I am SEARCHING for some groundswell of dissent within the Muslin ranks to marginalize Islamasists, if by “numerous” you mean “your circle of friends” then your anedoteal evidence is not what I’m looking for.
[/quote]

Where have you searched?

[quote=NightRider]I believe *you *are missing something, not Mr Kofi Annan. There were numerous American Muslims speaking out against 9/11 in the press and on television. In Seattle, which is near where I live, there were numerous public actions taken by local Muslims to show solidarity with Americans against terrorism and to educate the public about Islam. Many Muslim academics all across the country have written letters and articles attempting to educate the American public about the true nature of Islam. Americans refuse to hear! I know numerous Muslims who condemn the terrorists and speak out as often as they can. There is a wealth of information for the American people if they are truly interested in *learning *about Islam and how American Muslims actually feel about terrorism. The problem is many Americans have no desire to learn anything that contradicts their misinformed *opinions. :banghead: *
[/quote]

What are the names of the American Muslim leaders who specifically condemned the 9/11 attack? Which ones specifically condemned Osama Bin Laden?

There were Muslims on the TV shows who condemned “all terrosism,” but refused to specifically condemn either the 9/11 attack or Osama Bin Laden. Ibrahim Hooper and Hassan Ibish come to mind. Their evasion and equivocation is a major reason why people distrust US Muslims. This was a huge PR fiasco.

Remember the 9/11 ceremony in Yankee Stadium? (I think it was Yankee Stadium.) There were leaders from all major US religions. There were American black Muslim representatives, but not a single Mid Eastern representative. This is strange since so many of the imams in US mosques are from the Mid East.

There is a great deal of information available on Islam, and most Americans don’t know anything about it. However, at a critical time the US Muslims blew their best chance to make their case.

[quote=NightRider]Where have you searched?
[/quote]

By searching, I mean my eyes and ears are wide open. I WANT to hear it! I just haven’t. Point me in the right direction. Lead this horse to water. I find myself in the desert here.

[quote=jlw]By searching, I mean my eyes and ears are wide open. I WANT to hear it! I just haven’t. Point me in the right direction. Lead this horse to water. I find myself in the desert here.
[/quote]

Use Google, or call your local university and speak to the resident Islamic scholar, or call your local Muslim temple. Any of these places can provide you with the info you need. But you have to do that work, not me!

[quote=NightRider]Use Google, or call your local university and speak to the resident Islamic scholar, or call your local Muslim temple. Any of these places can provide you with the info you need. But you have to do that work, not me!
[/quote]

Fair enough. But why aren’t the big networks/newspapers getting these people more exposure??? The Left would do well to push these people to the forefront to say “See, see! you right-wingers are paranoid!!”

But it doesn’t happen.

But you are probably one of those who think network news is biased to the right, eh?

[quote=NightRider]Use Google, or call your local university and speak to the resident Islamic scholar, or call your local Muslim temple. Any of these places can provide you with the info you need. But you have to do that work, not me!
[/quote]

But you see, this is the very cause for my question to begin with: following acts of Islamist extreme terrorism, you would hope and expect that the mainline Muslim scholars, professors, and spokesmen in the country and abroad would have so much to say against it that we would not have to go hunting down comments in obscure academic circles.

[quote=Cherub]But you see, this is the very cause for my question to begin with: following acts of Islamist extreme terrorism, you would hope and expect that the mainline Muslim scholars, professors, and spokesmen in the country and abroad would have so much to say against it that we would not have to go hunting down comments in obscure academic circles.
[/quote]

My point, articulated much, much better.

[quote=jlw]Fair enough. But why aren’t the big networks/newspapers getting these people more exposure??? The Left would do well to push these people to the forefront to say “See, see! you right-wingers are paranoid!!”

But it doesn’t happen.

But you are probably one of those who think network news is biased to the right, eh?
[/quote]

:rotfl: Yup, I believe network news and media in general are biased, but not always just to the right! I believe the Left does attempt to push the knowledgeable Muslim Americans to the forefront, so to speak, but I just don’t think that network media is all that interested in these sorts of views, because these sorts of views don’t fit in all too well with the “military-industrial complex” that is the war against terrorism, which is what is being reported at this time. The news media does not wish to be viewed as soft on terrorists, even though reporting on Muslim Americans against terrorism would not in actuality soft on terrorists. There is the Palestine/Israel problem and most Muslims support the Palestinian desire for an independent state; the American news media never likes to show any support to an independent Palestine because that is perceived as anti-Israel and erroneously, anti-semitic. So–it is very difficult for our news media to spotlight the Muslims against terrorism because most of them support an independent Palestinian state, and the American media tends to view all Palestinians as terrorists.

Anyway, I have to sign off for now! Thanks for the exchanges! and God bless! :slight_smile:

[quote=NightRiderYup, I believe network news and media in general are biased, but not always just to the right!
[/quote]

Just to the right”.

Well, I figured as much. :rolleyes:

Nightrider, I know you signed off, but when you return, can you name me ONE obvious conservative reporter on ABC, NBC, or CBS??

[quote=jlw]“Just to the right”.

Well, I figured as much. :rolleyes:

Nightrider, I know you signed off, but when you return, can you name me ONE obvious conservative reporter on ABC, NBC, or CBS??
[/quote]

John Stossel

[quote=Zoot]John Stossel
[/quote]

Good!!! Very perceptive. Another???

Not so sure about more speaking out. It’s not just fear. It would be disingenuous. The basic teaching of the faith accepts slavery and killing as evangelistic tools. It’s hard to be a Muslim and condemn the killing of the bigoted, mean, sinful, and satan-deceived Christians and Jews. You pretty much have to be a cafeteria style Muslim (like a cafeteria Catholic that may go to Mass but pays little attention and does nothing else to learn about the faith), to reject such violence against non-Muslim faiths - and then you run the risk of persecution yourself - so a better alternative is to be non-religious completely.

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