In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful
If respectful means accepting Jesus (pbuh) as God & call Mary (pbuh) as mother of God , then it’s not possible for Muslims to do so . Also , I guess Jews , Hindus & people of other faith can’t show this respect to them .
But if this means we must not use nasty languages about religious figures of other faiths , then I am afraid mainly it’s the Christians who are doing this offensive & provoking act .
I’ve been suspicious of a few non-Catholic posters’ motives in the past few months. Some have left the forum. Others are still here.
I wonder if they know of these forum rules.
"Do not view the discussion area as a vehicle for single-mindedly promoting an agenda.
Non-Catholics are welcome to participate but must be respectful of the faith of the Catholics participating on the board. "
For both of you:
Do you have some specific examples of this to back up your assertions? Which Christians in particular, as I’m sure you don’t mean this as a blanket accusation?
Muslim and Christian Fundamentalist forums very often do not tolerate dissenting views let alone blaspheme against their God and ridiculing their doctrines.
I agree that those who ridicule our God, and Jesus is our God, should be out as this shows their coming here in bad faith and lack of respect. Atheist and Muslim posters are often the culprits in this area. Ridiculing our God amount to blaspheming and they should not be allowed. Of course there is nothing we can do about it if they persist with their blasphemy.
Ridiculing the Bible too should be dealt with sternly. It is alright if they want to argue or do not agree with verses interpretation but accusing the Bible being corrupted without any basis and evidence is simply bad-mouthing it.
I guess CAF is one of the most open forums around but posters should not take too much advantage of its leniency.
Proselytizing is quite obvious among posters of different religious groups here. I thought this is the reality in a religious forum, otherwise why would they want to be here? Personally I can take that. It is a plus for us too – we can learn how to defend our own faith as we debate with them. Beside this is always beneficial to those who are coming here to learn or to know more about our religion.
There’s another thread with a similar theme about other non-Catholic Christian type forums right around the corner.
Internet Forums are privately owned and have their own rules for engagement. They don’t have to be fair. They can make up whatever rules they wish to operate under. They don’t have to follow their own rules. That’s just the way it goes.
If you want it to be different, open your own forum, establish your own rules and invite people with dissenting views from your own to join and discuss whatever you want.
If you look most Catholics here on this forum have a lot of respect for Protestants and there are some that don’t. There are even Catholics that are disrespectful to other Catholics. But there are Protestants that are disrespectful Catholics just as there are Protestants that are respectful to Catholics. Just don’t assume every Catholic on this forum is going to be disrespectful to you because you are Protestant. That isn’t how I roll.
There is no one side right in this discussion. There are good and bad from all faiths. It would be silly to judge a whole group because of the actions of one, or a few.
Sometimes, it’s because the communication takes place through the written word and is no more than a mis-communication.
There are respectful ways to disagree and there are disrespectful ways to disagree.
Here’s an example of what I’m saying.
*]I don’t believe in praying to Mary or the saints.
*]Praying to Mary or the saints is a pagan practice.
One states the obvious disagreement and can, or should, be acceptable; the other is an ad hominem worded statement, which is viewed as an attack. It’s hard to imagine someone accidently words an ad hominem type statement, especially when one has time to preview and reflect prior to clicking the submit button.
Joh 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you: That you love one another, as I have loved you, that you also love one another.
Joh 13:35 By this shall all men know that you are my disciples, if you have love one for another.
A. My church teaches that there is no valid priesthood but our own, and thus no valid Eucharist but ours. I am required to accept my church’s teaching on this
B. Your church has no valid priesthood and your Eucharist is just bread of no spiritual value.
You’d be surprised how many RC’s use B. And they are uniformly “surprised” that we get upset.
I too am distressed that the rules don’t seem to operate for both sides. I’ve been called a lot of things here, and apparently it’s okay, but I have been “penalized” for disrepecting a political party, a corporate entity if you will…Bet you can guess which one!
I’ve seen Protestants here claim that Catholics are disrepspectful when they “dare” to defend their own faith. By defend, I mean clarify the many, many errors that are widely believed about the faith.
If a Protestant comes to a Catholic site, they are being foolish if they think that there won’t be Catholics here who know the faith and will insist that everyone (Protestant or Catholic), if they’re going to talk about the faith, tell the truth.
If you are a Protestant and you make false statement about some part of the Catholic faith, a Catholic here is very likely to correct that error. That is not being disrespectful toward your faith.
Recently there was a discussion about the Eucharits which of course lead to a discussion about ordination and apostolic succession. A few non-Catholics here were insulted by the Catholic teaching on the Eucharist. Well, they can be insulted if they want to be, but talking about Catholic teaching on a Catholic site is not an affront to non-Catholics. Do they think that we won’t talk about our faith here? That we will just agree to say “that’s interesting” while they make false statements about our faith?
I frequent a Protestant forum for the Pentecostal, Church of God. I am the only Catholic and the majority of Church of God people there are pastors.
I’ve told them all, my only goal was to show them Catholics are Christians, based on Catholic interpretation of scriptures, even if they do not agree with the interpretation, there can be no doubt our beliefs come from scriptures.
I have a lone Episcopalian priest there, who cheers me on. Even though he and I don’t agree on everything, we have some very spirit filled discussions and always respect the fact that we will not agree on everything. We hit places where we respectfully agree to disagree. I respect him and consider him a friend. Of course we’re both in a situation there, that makes us see we have more in common with each other, than the regulars on that forum.
I have even gained the respect of about 25% of the regulars there. At least they’ve come to my defense on occasion. They say they respect me because of my demeanor and because I went to them to share my view knowing I would be going against a majority and more than likely suffer abuse because of it. It hasn’t always been easy, but I work hard at not being disrespectful, as I consider myself a guest there. My first discussions went from being disrespected by a majority, to being invited to participate in specific topic debates, where we both agreed to a format beforehand. Those are going amazingly well in my opinion; very respectful dialogue between us. The most rewarding discussions are when we find out that we agree, but just say it differently (semantics).
There are still those there that I avoid or ignore their posts. Usually, one of those that I’ve gained the respect of, comes in and rebukes the volatile. Those that I ignore, do not represent the whole, or so I’ve learned from experience.
Alot of discussions start backwards here, in my opinion. That is, we start at our differences and say we’re trying to find middle ground. I think we could do much better to find what we have in common and start there, and then with understanding of how another believes what they do. If two people will discuss their differences respectfully, it’s normally a misconception or semantics that separate us, in my opinon.
Another problem here, is the expectations of some posters. The expectation that they can make everyone see what they see so well in their heart. The expectation of agreement. The expectation of converting someone. We of ourselves cannot convert anyone. That’s only something the Holy Spirit can do. Guests here cannot admit to seeking conversions, because most of them know they will be banned for it. Leave expectations out of the discussions, try to understand and learn something new, be a witness to others by what you say, and let the Holy Spirit do His job. If anyone gets out of line, click the http://forums.catholic.com/images/buttons_khaki/report.gif and let the moderators deal with it.
It is my belief, hope and prayer that through God’s great economy, Christians from many different Churches will see the Kingdom of God, in heaven.
Kalt this always grows tiresome. You are so paranoid that every non RC is somehow obviously or otherwise slandering your church that you have such a block that your can’t read properly.
It is a believe. It may or may not be true. It is not subject to proof. If it were every logical average intelligent person in the entire world would agree with you. I believe a good many things about my church as well, and I believe them to be true. I cannot prove them as such either, and so I refrain from declaring them as obvious truth. They are true to me.
You are so blinded as to not see this apparently. I fully expect any RC to believe that what their church teaches is truth. But we are talking about believing that something is true and being able to prove it objectively true to disinterested parties. We all believe these things. Can you not see the difference? If not, I am sorry but you must if you ever wish to debate with any kind of respect.
You are not required to to think other opinions either equal or valid. Sigh…this should be obvious.
again, no one is asking you to water down anything. I cannot seem to get through with to you with English. Is there a some other language that you are more comfortable with? I can’t speak to you obviously, but perhaps we can find a interpreter to help us communicate?
I’m relatively new to this forum and have a ton of respect for the moderators because they can tell the difference between a strong opinion stated bluntly vs. total disregard and disrespect for the religious beliefs of others. It’s only through the moderators fair judgment that I’m still here (and the grace of God).
My question is, what would any of you do differently if it was your forum?
“It is a believe. It may or may not be true. It is not subject to proof. If it were every logical average intelligent person in the entire world would agree with you. I believe a good many things about my church as well, and I believe them to be true. I cannot prove them as such either, and so I refrain from declaring them as obvious truth. They are true to me.”
You may be unwilling to commit 100% to a faith. This is not true of Catholics. We believe that Catholicism is the truth.
Your argument is that all faiths are merely one truth among many contradictory truths that may or may not be true.
I’m sure that you can see just how illogical that logic is.
Catholics believe that our faith is the truth. This seems to bother you to no end.
And for the life of me I can’t figure out why you don’t believe that same thing about your own faith? Is it that the faith you have now is good for now, but if something truer comes along that will be better? Why the reluctance to commit to your faith? Why say you believe is is true and then say that it may or may not be true. That makes no sense. You either believe it’s true, or you believe it’s not true. A more accurate statement would be, “I think that my faith might be true. Since I can’t prove it, I’m not going to commit.”
“Kalt this always grows tiresome. You are so paranoid that every non RC is somehow obviously or otherwise slandering your church that you have such a block that your can’t read properly.”
Actually, it is you who plays victim. You’ve posted oddles of responses complainging that Catholics don’t use the words to describe their faith that make you happy. If Catholic says that Catholicism is the truth, you are offended. You want us to say that it might be the truth, because that is what you believe about your own faith.
You insist on discussing the differences between Catholicism and your faith, but you want Catholics to water-down their faith when communicating with you. If the Catholic states a believe that you don’t like, that you think is insulting to you (that the Catholic faith is truth, for example), you try to insist that the Catholic change the belief to agree with your views on your own faith, namely that “it may or may not be true.”
The truth is that Catholics do believe that their faith is the truth. They believe that Jesus founded the Church, for example, and that that is a fact, not just a possibility among many possibilities.
You want to discuss the Catholic faith, but you can’t handle the truth about what Catholics believe. This is why you go around insisting that we say our faith might be true, but might not be.
When that effort failed, you say that any Catholic who refuses to say that the Catholic faith might not be true, can’t speak English and needs an interpreter. :rolleyes:
Disagreeing with you is not the same as not understanding you. I understand what you are saying–the complaint that you’ve been repeating for days now - and I disagree.
The Catholic faith is true. If you want to compare what you believe about your faith and what Catholics believe about their faith. There it is. Catholics believe that their faith is true. Not that it might or might not be true, but that it is true.
You are under no obligation to agree with Catholic doctrine or theology, and I’ve already said that several times. Perhaps it is you who can’t read, since you insist on claiming that I want you accept my faith.
What I ask–and this may be emotionally or intellectually impossible for you–is to accept the Catholic faith for what it is. Not to become Catholic, but to accept Catholicism for what it is, and to quit insisting that Catholics denounce their faith with statments like, “My faith may or may not be true.”
I will repeat it again. - The above is not a Catholic thought. Believing that our faith may or may not be true, is not a Catholic belief.
Why are you insisting that it is?
If you insist again that Catholics “admit” that their faith may or may not be true, you will get a very simple answer. I will not attempt to explain this very simple concept to you again.
I will simply tell you, “No. I will not denounce or deny the Catholic faith with statements like, it may or may not be true.”
Finally found this, and it’s too late to edit my last post.
Spiritmeadow, as an example of what Catholics believe (one of the beliefs you had a problem with, I think) -
In an earlier thread, you and others were quite upset about what Catholics believe about the Eucharist. No one asked you to believe what was stated, but only to accept that it is what Catholics believe.
This is from the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
1400 Ecclesial communities derived from the Reformation and separated from the Catholic Church, “**have not preserved the proper reality of the Eucharistic mystery in its fullness, especially because of the absence of the sacrament of Holy Orders.”**239 It is for this reason that, for the Catholic Church, Eucharistic intercommunion with these communities is not possible."
This is what I related, and was roundly berated for. Several seemed to think that I should “take it back”. Most, I think, thought that our beliefs about the Eucharist, though I said otherwise, have nothing to do with apostolic succession/ordination.
However this is our faith–This is the truth.
You may not like what we believe, thinking that it is insulting to your faith, but it is what it is.
Insisting that we say that what we believe about our faith, in this example about the Eucharist, may or may not be true, is being blind to what the Catholic faith is.
Catholics do not believe that truth is relative or subjective. Truth exists, and it can be known.
This is Catholic belief.
I think coming to a Catholic site and insisting that any Catholic member denounce or deny the faith by agreeing with you that truth can’t be known and that the Catholic faith may or may not be true is a grave misuse.