Fr. Gruner...whats the deal with this priest?


#1

My mom gave me a publication, the Fatima Crusader, and was telling me about the incident at the Fatima Shrines with Hindu worship. She was a little confused by the whole thing, and I never really followed up on the full story.

My question is, a) what is the official status on Fr. Gruner (and please back this up with official vatican documents), b) what is the coles notes version of what happened at Fatima, c) should this magazine be read, it seemed to have some great information in it, however now I’m leary. Please though, if you have some sort of personal vendetta against Fr. Gruner, don’t share it, just provide me with factual information.

Thanks in advance


#2

bump


#3

[quote=Superstar905]My mom gave me a publication, the Fatima Crusader, and was telling me about the incident at the Fatima Shrines with Hindu worship. She was a little confused by the whole thing, and I never really followed up on the full story.

My question is, a) what is the official status on Fr. Gruner (and please back this up with official vatican documents), b) what is the coles notes version of what happened at Fatima, c) should this magazine be read, it seemed to have some great information in it, however now I’m leary. Please though, if you have some sort of personal vendetta against Fr. Gruner, don’t share it, just provide me with factual information.

Thanks in advance
[/quote]

The links off this page should get you to all of the documents, canonical studies, etc. that you need.
theotokos.org.uk/pages/fatima/ngruner/ngruner.html


#4

I just noticed that some of the links are dead so here are some more:

sspx.agenda.tripod.com/id13.html
sspx.agenda.tripod.com/id26.html
tcrnews2.com/genfatima.html

These should be enough to get you going. If you need more, let me know.


#5

I don’t know what to make of all the information about this guy. He is a priest still, that much I know, and there have been some very disturbing things going on at the Fatima shrine. I don’t think Our Lady would be too pleased. The whole thing seems diabolical to me. I try to avoid it. It’s like the devil does some evil stuff at Fatima, and then he tells a priest to tell the world about it so they can be scandalized out of the Church into SSPX or some other schism. That’s just my perception of the whole thing.


#6

[quote=tiny’smommy]I don’t know what to make of all the information about this guy. He is a priest still, that much I know, and there have been some very disturbing things going on at the Fatima shrine. I don’t think Our Lady would be too pleased. The whole thing seems diabolical to me. I try to avoid it. It’s like the devil does some evil stuff at Fatima, and then he tells a priest to tell the world about it so they can be scandalized out of the Church into SSPX or some other schism. That’s just my perception of the whole thing.
[/quote]

Can you explain “He is a priest still, that much I know”? After ordination a man is a priest and can never loose that.

But I believe Fr Gruner has been suspended and has no faculties to perform any priestly functions. The man is in schism.

Only when one listens to these schismatics does one think that strange things are going on at Fatima.


#7

catholicintl.com/epologetics/articles/mary/ferrara-gruner1.htm

Since people are asserting that Mr. Gruner is in outright schism, I thought I’d link to a different version of the story for those who might be interested. Hear both sides of the story before you decide.

As for me, I have read the text of John Paul II’s 1984 consecration of the world to the immaculate heart of Mary and, in my humble opinion, it would seem to be sufficient. Father Gruner doesn’t think so, however, and that is why Cardinal Sodano has come down on him like a ton of bricks.

Love, Jaypeeto4 (aka Jaypeeto3)


#8

I haven’t read any of Fr. Gruners pamphlets for a number of years but I remember that they were basicly all about Fr. Gruner. Are they still the same?
I was turned of when in 199? the Third Secret was revealed. The very next publication was about how Fr. Gruner disagreed with everything. No evidence of discernment at all.

st julie
.


#9

[quote=Jaypeeto4]catholicintl.com/epologetics/articles/mary/ferrara-gruner1.htm

Since people are asserting that Mr. Gruner is in outright schism, I thought I’d link to a different version of the story for those who might be interested. Hear both sides of the story before you decide.

As for me, I have read the text of John Paul II’s 1984 consecration of the world to the immaculate heart of Mary and, in my humble opinion, it would seem to be sufficient. Father Gruner doesn’t think so, however, and that is why Cardinal Sodano has come down on him like a ton of bricks.

Love, Jaypeeto4 (aka Jaypeeto3)
[/quote]

Just two things.

  1. There are not two sides to the story. When the Church declares that someone is in error then they are in error.

  2. As for the Consecration. Either one can believe Fr Gruner or one can believe Pope John Paul II and Sr Lucia. So either the Pope and Sr Lucia told the truth or Fr Gruner is right and they are liars.


#10

There are two sides to every story.
Read them both, and decide for yourself who is most accurate.

The church has not declared Fr. Gruner to be in any "error."
Certain curial officials have declared him “suspended a divinis” from priestly ministry. There’s a difference. He was told by the bishop of Avellino to either return to Avellino in 30 days OR find another bishop to incardinate him in his Archdiocese. He complied with this by having the Archbishop of Hyderabad, India, incardinate him in his Archdiocese, which WAS done. However, under pressure from Cardinal Sodano, the bishop of Avellino then demanded that he return to Avellino ANYWAY, even AFTER he had already been incardinated in Hyderabad. Also, the bishop of Avellino did not follow the legal guidelines of Italian law to make it possible for a foreigner who has not been in Avellino for 18 years, to return under Italian law. So technically, Fr. Gruner cannot return. Because of his failure to return, however, he was declared suspended a divinis.

As for the 1984 consecration, I too accept it.
Fr. Gruner has a problem with it because apparently, from 1984 to 1989, Sr. Lucia said that the 1984 consecration was NOT sufficient. THEN, in 1989, apparently under pressure from Cardinal Sodano, she THEN started saying that the 1984 consecration was sufficient.

Love,
Jaypeeto4 (aka Jaypeeto3)


#11

well, this has all been quite interesting to read…what about the Hindu worship at Fatima? Didn’t Fr. Gruner have something to do with that?

can someone clarify that for me? Thanks!


#12

Father Gruner raised a big fuss about the Hindu worship that occured at Fatima, but he didn’t have anything to do with it.

Some Hindus, with the permission of the rector of the Fatima shrine, came to the Capelhina and offered flowers in front of the statue of Mary. What galled Gruner and many others was that the Hindu priest was allowed to stand at the Holy Altar in the Capelhina and recite a Hindu prayer for peace.

I have no problem with praying for peace, but a consecrated Catholic altar is NOT the place for a priest of a pagan religion to be offering pagan prayers, so I understand Gruner’s being upset at this.

Other bad things occured at Fatima too. One of the most awful was at an interfaith congress a couple of years back, when liberal theologian Father Jacques Dupuis S.J. asserted that pagan religions are positively willed by God, and then sacrilegiously denounced the solemn dogmatic definition of the Council of Florence, referring to it as “that horrible text from the Council of Florence.” Gruner’s little group wasn’t the only group of people outraged by that.

Jaypeeto4 (aka Jaypeeto3)


#13

[quote=Jaypeeto4]There are two sides to every story.
Read them both, and decide for yourself who is most accurate.

[/quote]

Yes, there are two sides to any story but…

As Catholics we are bound by the Church. When the Church suspends a priest and says that they are in schism we must follow.


#14

[quote=Jaypeeto4]Father Gruner raised a big fuss about the Hindu worship that occured at Fatima, but he didn’t have anything to do with it.

Some Hindus, with the permission of the rector of the Fatima shrine, came to the Capelhina and offered flowers in front of the statue of Mary. What galled Gruner and many others was that the Hindu priest was allowed to stand at the Holy Altar in the Capelhina and recite a Hindu prayer for peace.

I have no problem with praying for peace, but a consecrated Catholic altar is NOT the place for a priest of a pagan religion to be offering pagan prayers, so I understand Gruner’s being upset at this.

Other bad things occured at Fatima too. One of the most awful was at an interfaith congress a couple of years back, when liberal theologian Father Jacques Dupuis S.J. asserted that pagan religions are positively willed by God, and then sacrilegiously denounced the solemn dogmatic definition of the Council of Florence, referring to it as “that horrible text from the Council of Florence.” Gruner’s little group wasn’t the only group of people outraged by that.

Jaypeeto4 (aka Jaypeeto3)
[/quote]

Why have multiple user names here?

As for this stuff. Yes this is what Fr Gruner and other trouble makers claim happened.

I stand by the Church which says something different.


#15

Hi.
Re my “multiple” user names,
Jaypeeto3 is how I sign in on my office computer when I’m on a break. I just got my home computer a few weeks ago, and created Jaypeeto4 as my home user name cuz I didn’t remember the password for Jaypeeto3.

As for cheering on everything that officials of the church declare,
we ought to recall that duly appointed officers of “the church” officially declared Joan of Arc a WITCH and had her burned at the stake. Then, centuries later, “the church” declared her a Saint.
The pope himself did not suspend Father Gruner, who has by the way not committed any “schismatic” act at all.
His “sin” was refusing to return to Avellino to live (which legally he cannot do anyway cuz the Bishop of Avellino must take certain steps FIRST before Gruner could do that under Italian law, which legal steps the bishop has nevere taken).
Remember, he was given a choice: either return to Avellino to live, or get incardinated in another diocese by another Bishop.
Gruner chose to try to get incardinated by another Bishop.
He was successful. He was and IS incardinated by the Archbishop of Hyderabad, India. So legally and morally, he complied with the choice he was given. This suspension is in my view, grossly unjust and grossly immoral and therefore not binding in the eyes of God, Who never sides with injustice.

Father Gruner may indeed be wrong about the 1984 consecration being sufficient, but other than that he is a 100% orthodox conservative priest who has not done or taught ANYTHING against the Catholic faith.

It is simply amazing to me that the officials in the Vatican cannot “find the time” to , say, REMOVE Mahoney as Archbishop of Los Angeles thereby protecting Los Angeles Catholics from this wolf in Cardinal’s clothing, but yet they DO have the time to harass and persecute a harmless orthodox priest over the results of a private revelation.

Officials of the church ARE NOT always right when they issue decrees.

Love, Jaypeeto4 (aka Jaypeeto3)


#16

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