Has this been posted?
Anyone have more info on Fr. Isaac Mary Relyea?
Has this been posted?
Anyone have more info on Fr. Isaac Mary Relyea?
Hey, my old friend is back. I’m not mad at you, so go ahead and respond to my posts if you want. Are any those sermons about the Charismatic Movement in relation to Traditional Catholicism?
No it is a very powerful Lenten Mission On the 4 Last things
www.audiosancto.com has FSSP sermons given by very Holy Priests
No, they are about the four last things: Death, Judgement, Heaven, Hell.
All of us will face three of them. You can guess which of the last two I picked.
One single sentence stands out in the first part of the mission - the prelude:
[size=]Mercy, is to love those that don’t DESERVE to be loved anymore. But God continues to love us and that is true Mercy
The only thing I can think of as to how it would relate to the Charismatic movement is it might bring into balance some of the somber points of Christian prayer and life. There is much joy to be had in praising God, but that is not the “whole loaf of bread”. To have fuller joy, you must really, deeply, and truly in a somber and sober light, contemplate the truths of suffering, His suffering, our suffering.
Some of us went back to the Catholic Church when we became desperately afraid of the fires of Hell and had the grace to see our friendship with God has become impaired. I didn’t want to die in that state. That is where it starts.
This mission has motivated me to make frequent use of confession. For that, I am very grateful. It has really moved me.
The Charismatics can be a rowdy bunch, so they have to be kept in line. Especially, during a Mass.
If you have been studying at a seminary you have some sort of calling, anointing, or may be baptized in the Holy Spirit and not know it. (Acts 2:4) teaches us how to speak in tongues. Most non-Charismatics are waiting for the Spirit to activate their vocal cords, and that‘s not what the Bible teaches. The indwelling of the Spirit gave them utterance, and the vocal noise was created by the Apostles.
It helps to start with Spirit filled music like the Gregorian Chants, and sing along with them with the “utterance” that the Spirit gives you. The revival started at the Azusa Street Mission in 1906 with William Seymour, and is still going full force today.
Maybe you’re being humorous or ironic and I’m not getting it… or maybe you’re in favor of “Charismatic Catholicism.” If you don’t mind, would specify which, please?
Glad to meet you. I am a visiting Charismatic Protestant, and I’m not in favor of anything. SimpleSinner and I have been discussing Charismatic Renew in relation to Traditional Catholicism for quite a while, and I thought it would be fitting to show him how easy it is. It’s no big deal. Just another expressive method to praise God. People with expressive personalities tend to be Charismatic, and people with pharisaical personality tend to follow the rules and regulations. Who is to say which is truth?
Any more questions? We have a 6:00 PM Tridentine Latin mass out here in California, and this the First Friday. I’ll check this thread after 10:00 PM Pacific Time tonight.
I really am not comfortable comparing and contrasting these two movements by implying “expressive” (a very positive term) people as being of one group and “pharisaical” people (defined as ***marked by hypocritical censorious self-righteousness ***) being of the other group.
The terms are loaded. The dichotomy seems false and unfair. Expressive people don’t like the old liturgy? Charismatics never have risk of suffering the qualities of the pharisaical? I think we both know these generalizations are overly-broad.
In the interest of charity I am going to presuppose that you are not meaning to be offensive to anyone.
Basically, I think we do not understand each other. I don’t understand your motivations, you don’t understand my piety and liturgical sensibilities. (Incidentally, I am a Greek Catholic).
Perhaps we can get past that. Let us be very careful in our adjectives though.
Thanks for this. I sent a link to my PP who is the only priest I have heard give a homily on The Four Last Things, at least since Vatican II.
PP= Parish priest?
Okay, I’m willing to admit that I get a little facetious at times, and I forget that some people try the shoe on to see if it fits. Living near San Francisco has made my wife very watchful of my facetious tendencies, especially while we are out on the town. She keeps me buttoned up for fear that something might happen to me.
I agree that I was trying to move you towards expressive charismatic worship with generalizations. Did you ponder (Acts 2:4) and give it a try?
If only we agreed on what happened in Acts 2:4.
Did you have a chance to listen to any of the mission?
Yes. He gave an excellent homily today about how much God hates sin. He cracks us up sometimes when he says really funny things without meaning to be humourous.
No, not yet. Saturday is a honey-do day around here. I only plan to listen to the “Prelude to the mission” , because my calling is for the sick. Topics like Death, Judgment, Hell, and Heaven are a little to harsh for someone who is in bad shape. The only hard topic that would help me is Unconfessed Sin, because that could block the healing that Jesus has for us. But, I haven’t been successful at getting that across.
It’s the emotions like self pity, resentment, unforgiveness, unbelief, hate, anger, etc. that block the healing that Jesus has for us. Basically, all I do is listen and then put their hand on my Bible and pray in the Spirit. Somehow, and don’t ask me how, those blockages to healing are removed in some people.
Benny Hinn will be at the HP Pavilion in San Jose this September 27 & 28 for a Holy Spirit Miracle Crusade. Back about 20 years ago I was invited to a television station studio in Concord, and actually see Benny Hinn knock down one half of the crowd by just waving his hand once across them. I was on the other side, but I felt the mighty power of the Holy Spirit on my face. Needless to say, I am still impressed, and I will be at the HP Pavilion.
I am not sure I understand. Why are these topics too harsh? Well all will undergo and experience three of the four.
I first listened to this mission when I was in some rough shape myself. It gave me hope, inspiration, and helped me to want to Keep my end before me.
Don’t go, you are just following a man. Benny Hinn is just a person just like you and I. Jesus said we are not to look at the creation but to the creator. Test the spirits.
It’s easy to understand, but I don’t know how far you went through a Seminary for the Catholic priesthood? Eventually you would have taken course a in ministering to people who are in the final stages. That type of ministering is usually listening, and then pray. People in the late stages are simply not interest in another persons perception of religious truth. That’s why I simply hold their hand against my Bible and pray in the Spirit.
Remember that there is a big difference in speaking in tongues which requires someone to interpret and praying in tongues which is allowing the Holy Spirit to pray. Praying in tongues is what I do as a Charismatic, not speaking in tongues.
In the Epistle of Paul the Apostle to the Romans he describes what takes place so that there is no credit given to the person praying in the Spirit. (uttered) We already discussed (Acts 2:4) where speaking in tongues was an utterance.
“Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we aught, but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groaning which cannot be uttered.” (Romans 8:26) KJV
It follows that when I am praying in the Spirit for a patient with his hand on my bible, I am simply letting the Holy Spirit do the praying. In other words, theology is theology and ministering is ministering.
The next verse (Romans 8:27) also applies to the saints:
“He who searches hearts knows what the Spirit means, for the Spirit intercedes for the saints as God himself wills” New American Bible Vatican II
Understand the difference now?
With that last sentence, emphasis mine, I hope you are not attempting to be glib.
Are you of the thinking that a person would need advanced seminary training to understand? Or could a person honestly disagree with you on this?
But let’s not get ahead of ourselves. The purpose of this mission isn’t to simply help a person understand how to minister to others. It is for the listener.
If you listen to the mission, you will know why it is such a good thing to listen to: If we keep our end before us, we will not sin.
Certainly this is a bit of hyperbole. But if every morning I wake up and pray for good death, perfect contrition and remember my end: Death, Judgement Heaven or Hell is coming (and we know its coming, every second we have is numbered) my actions all through the day are seen in the light of eternity. Will this (action) impair my friendship with God or bring me closer?
Listening to this mission well before we are on our deathbeds can help us to die in happiness in God’s friendship.
I have to admit that Benny Hinn represents Protestant enlightenment, but I doubt if people are there to worship him? But, I guess it’s possible in some cases? You never know? Remember, the “current” Catholic Charismatic Renewal comes out of the experience of Duquesne University Student on a weekend retreat in February 1967. There is plenty written if you search the web.
Getting back on topic with Fr. Isaac Mary Relyea’s Lenten Mission that was posted by SimpleSinner, this is what I found about the Holy Spirit and the Mission of the church:
From the CCC:
The Holy Spirit and the Church
737 The mission of Christ and the Holy Spirit is brought to completion in the Church, which is the Body of Christ and the Temple of the Holy Spirit. This joint mission henceforth brings Christ’s faithful to share in his communion with the Father in the Holy Spirit. The Spirit prepares men and goes out to them with his grace, in order to draw them to Christ. The Spirit manifests the risen Lord to them, recalls his word to them and opens their minds to the understanding of his Death and Resurrection. He makes present the mystery of Christ, supremely in the Eucharist, in order to reconcile them, to bring them into communion with God, that they may "bear much fruit."132
799 Whether extraordinary or simple and humble, charisms are graces of the Holy Spirit which directly or indirectly benefit the Church, ordered as they are to her building up, to the good of men, and to the needs of the world.
800 Charisms are to be accepted with gratitude by the person who receives them and by all members of the Church as well. They are a wonderfully rich grace for the apostolic vitality and for the holiness of the entire Body of Christ, provided they really are genuine gifts of the Holy Spirit and are used in full conformity with authentic promptings of this same Spirit, that is, in keeping with charity, the true measure of all charisms.253
801 It is in this sense that discernment of charisms is always necessary. No charism is exempt from being referred and submitted to the Church’s shepherds. "Their office [is] not indeed to extinguish the Spirit, but to test all things and hold fast to what is good,"254 so that all the diverse and complementary charisms work together "for the common good."255
741 "The Spirit helps us in our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes with sighs too deep for words."134 The Holy Spirit, the artisan of God’s works, is the master of prayer. (This will be the topic of Part Four.)
By the way, I’m not sure that I understand everything that I know?:shrug:
This thread is closed.