The irony of how he says that “LGBT people are more than their sexual lives” while referring to them with an acronym that identifies them solely based on their sexual preferences.
"Martin’s speech warned: “Don’t reduce LGBT people to the call to chastity we all share.”
“LGBT people are more than their sexual lives,” he said, “and if you talk about chastity with LGBT people, do it as much with straight people.”
??? REALLY! I’m at a loss for words and that doesn’t happen very often.
Maybe he’s identifying LGBT people that way because that’s the way that most of them want to be identified. It’s the polite thing to do.
“Once again he has set up a scarecrow–a straw man. Just what exactly does this “good celibate gay priest” look like? Undoubtedly there are a good number of Catholic priests who experience same sex attraction. I believe many of them are holy, hard working well adjusted men. Their sexuality has been accepted and integrated and by God’s grace they have mastered their lusts and sublimated their sexuality into their priestly vocation. However, they do not describe themselves as “gay”.
–Fr. Dwight Longenecker
I think this would inevitably include RCC Tradition, Sacred Scripture, Christ and the Apostles, so I am pretty comfortable alienating James Martin with my beliefs on this issue. If someone said this on CAF I would suspect he/she was probably a troll. A piece of advice, don’t fall into the trap of trying to justify yourself as merciful and ‘not homophobic’. That is your first mistake. It is like engaging with a Jehovah’s Witness. Just shut the door.
Here’s a thought. Why did the Vatican even invite Fr. Martin to speak at the World Meeting of Families to begin with??? He’s a lightning rod in the negative sense. In light of the huge scandal that has rocked the Church, does anyone here think this is a wise decision? Just curious.
This ^ is a good example of a logical fallacy.
Needed in Ireland in Dublin Castle today!
These are my own thoughts: CajunJoy65
“1. What happened to loving someone so much that you tell them the truth and help them to get to Heaven. All we can do is give them the facts and be there for them if they choose to go on continuing in sin it is on them. BUT to not tell them the truth or to support them in their sinful ways as being loving is just WRONG!
2. “WRONG IS WRONG even if everybody is doing it. RIGHT IS RIGHT even if no one is doing it. ”
3. I try to remember what Jesus said to the woman at the well. He told her the TRUTH of her sins and didn’t sugar coat anything. With the woman who was about to be stoned he said your sins are forgiven GO AND SIN NO MORE! Am I perfect—NO NOT by a long shot. Is anybody perfect—NO NOT by a long shot but it doesn’t mean we just give up and say “Oh well that’s how I am I can’t change”. When we face our sins and try to change and continue to go to Confession and try again and again and again to overcome our sins that is what makes Saints. But just wallowing in our sins and saying “Oh poor pitiful me I was made this way” and not even trying to change that is a whole different “kettle of fish! Also if we do that same thing for others and say “OH poor thing they have SSA and they NEED to live that life to be happy and feel like they belong so I can’t tell them the TRUTH of what the Church teaches” NOPE NOT gonna wash when we face the Lord. Sure we love them, sure we help them as much as we can but also SURE we tell them the ABSOLUTE TRUTH to save their eternal souls. We don’t cave in to society saying let them be, they have this struggle let them live the way they need to.
4. I’d do the SAME THING for any heterosexual family member or friend I loved if they were living in fornication. I would give them the TRUTH, love them and help them in any way I could to get out of that sinful lifestyle. It can’t be a different way just because the person might be SSA. TRUTH IS TRUTH 100% of the time 100% of the circumstances and 100% of whoever it is we are dealing with. TRUE love is giving the person the TRUTH not sugar coating anything or giving them lee way because they are SSA.”
" 5. ALL SINGLE PEOPLE MUST REMAIN CHASTE. Whether you are SSA or opposite sex attracted if you are not married you MUST remain CHASTE. If you are married you must remain chaste in your marriage and TRUE to your marriage vows. If you are a Priest or Consecrated Religious Brother or Sister or unmarried Deacon you MUST remain celibate (unless you were not Catholic, had already married and then joined the Catholic Church and became a Catholic Priest). NO Ifs, ands or buts about it. It goes for everybody. No one is being singled out or asked to do any more or less than anybody else. Until people realize this this mess won’t get better.
6. I don’t think Jesus would have ever said OH I don’t want to hurt their feelings or make them feel bad for what they are doing so I won’t correct them. NOPE, He gave it to them like it was and He does the same for us today. Loving somebody is NOT letting them continue to live in sin that could send them to hell for eternity. Loving somebody is NOT shaming them or putting them down or making fun of them but instead giving them what they need to know to change and become Saints."
“People do not believe lies because they have to but because they want to.”
– Malcolm Muggeridge
“A man may lie to himself very prettily, but he can never really escape from the knowledge that it is a lie.”
– Melinda Selmys, former lesbian
“Do not accept anything as love which lacks truth.”
– Edith Stein
From Robert R. Reilly’s book “Making Gay Okay”.
Based on an article that someone posted by Daniel Mattson, “Why Men Like Me Should
Not Be Priests,” an exception would have to be made for some people:
men with homosexual tendencies find it particularly difficult to live out the demands of chastity. The vast majority of scandals in the Church since 2002 involve homosexual priests profoundly failing in chastity. This is no surprise to me. Chastity, I’m convinced (and the evidence bears this out), is much harder for men with a homosexual inclination than for others.
Fr. James Lloyd, C.S.P., a priest with a PhD in psychology from NYU, has worked with homosexual men (including priests) for more than 30 years as a clinical psychologist. On the subject of chastity and homosexual priests, he says, “It is clear enough from clinical evidence that the psychic energy needed to contain homosexual drives is far greater than that needed by the straying heterosexual.”
So, it seems according to what Mattson says that, unlike straight men, gay men just can’t contain their sexual urges.
Or maybe Mr. Mattson is just being homophobic.
Well that is very demeaning. That’s saying that they are just wild led by their hormones. If heterosexual single men can be chaste so can homosexual men. Easy ------no I’m sure not, possible yes by the grace of God, prayer, other spiritual devotions and maybe even spiritual guidance by a spiritual director.
Actually, marriage does not somehow release people from the law of chastity! (bold added)
“People should cultivate [chastity] in the way that is suited to their state of life. Some profess virginity or consecrated celibacy which enables them to give themselves to God alone with an undivided heart in a remarkable manner. Others live in the way prescribed for all by the moral law, whether they are married or single.” Married people are called to live conjugal chastity; others practice chastity in continence:
There are three forms of the virtue of chastity: the first is that of spouses, the second that of widows, and the third that of virgins. We do not praise any one of them to the exclusion of the others. . . . This is what makes for the richness of the discipline of the Church.
" If you are married you must remain chaste in your marriage and TRUE to your marriage vows."
I also wrote this in my post.
I agree that what Mattson says is demeaning. But some people just really want to make the point that gay men are completely different than straight men when it comes to self control, and the sexual abuse crisis has given them a club to beat gay people with.
I think there will be MANY SSA Saints in Heaven (probably unknown to us) because despite their SSA they love God and the Church so much that they remained chaste and lived their Catholic Faith the way we are all asked to do.
Just so I get it, those responding up thread believe that gay people are no more than their sexual lives? I honestly cannot think that is what you mean.
Fr Martin is encouraging us to see people as people.
As someone once said “God knows our sins and calls us by our name, Satan knows our name and calls us by our sins”.
If you have a cross to bear that is an inclination to a particular sin, let’s say it is watching pornography. How would it be if every conversation you had with a fellow Catholic, on line or in real life, all they would do is remind you that using pornography is a sin. You come in to a discussion about the death penalty or about Marian devotions, immediately they ask if you have used pornography recently. Would that seem to be a bit excessive?
Take it another step, you are a married person. You go to sign up to be an Usher at Church. The coordinator says “well, are you cheating on your spouse?” To assume someone is committing sin the opposite of charity.
Take some time and watch this video http://www.blackstonefilms.co/thethirdway/
A great article here: