What do you all think about Fr. Malachi Martin?
I find him interesting. I have some tapes I listen to and while I think a lot of what he says makes sense, I am not sure I agree with* all *he says.
I listened to a speech he gave at a pro-life event which is available on Youtube. He seemed to be promoting the discredited “New World Order” conspiracy theory. However, I also read some of his book about the Jesuits and found it to be quite good.
I have not read much about him (I’ve just heard the name- I did read some trustworthy websites- like EWTN- before I made this post though). I did not find anything wrong with anything he has said, but I haven’t read a whole lot. The EWTN site said he was dispensed of his vows in the Jesuit order, and of his faculties as a priest. Though as far as I coult tell from that site, he seems to be in good standing with the Church, I am very skeptical of anyone who is ordained to the priesthood, and then leaves the priesthood. I very firmly believe that many people follow the wrong vocation- but I also very firmly believe that people have to live with the decisions they make. If they really can’t make it, then God wouldn’t allow them to follow that path. It just may be an extremely difficult one- they may not be able to celebrate Mass publically, or carry out most of the duties a priest does- but they undergo a very real change at ordination, and NOTHING can take that away.
I stand corrected
[quote=Father Malachi Martin]**The most extreme state is ‘perfect possession’, when the demon has taken complete control. The perfectly possessed person is totally lost. **
I’m almost certain that is heresy. No one can be totally lost without opportunity for repentence before they die. To say that the person is totally lost because the demon has taken complete control is to say that God Himself cannot drive out the demon- that the demon is greater than God. That is heresy- and idolatry on top of that.**
Is it? That quote is from Hostage, a book I own.
God have mercy on his soul and may he rest in peace.:signofcross:
My quote? I’m not sure what the original source for it is exactly. I just know those are Fr. Malachi Martin’s words- and I am pretty sure they are heretical. If anyone can prove otherwise, please let me know.
This is purely out of curiosity, though out of some concern as well:
It seems almost as though you think he may have died outside of God’s friendship. I may be wrong in presuming this, but then again you would may also be wrong in presuming what I think you might be. If such is the case, what have you learned of him that has influenced your thoughts?
Fr. Malachi Martin was granted a full and legal dispensation from his Jesuit vows except for chastity and given a perpetual celebret to celebrate the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass in private.
There were certain nasty rumours spread about Fr Martin, which were later corrected by the former Vicar General of the Jesuits, Father Vincent O’Keefe, S.J.
No I do not believe he died outside of God’s friendship. The OP asked for thoughts on him and my reaction is that he is dead and we should pray for him. I don’t want to speculate on his life. I hope that now and when I die I will have prayers. If he doesn’t need prayers, I don’t believe there wasted maybe he is praying for me. I hope so. I need them. I never thought my thoughts would have been so misunderstood. Thank you for allowing me to claryify them.
All I know about Fr. Martin (shouldn’t it be Mr. Martin since he gave up the priesthood?) is what I learned listening to Art Bell’s middle of the night radio show. I’m not even sure if its still on the air as this was over 10 years ago. Anyway, the show was pretty weird. A sampling of his guests would include people abducted by UFOs, psychics, witches, conspiracy theorists, etc. (I’m a bit embarrassed to have listened to the show regularly back then, but it was the only thing on live in the middle of the night when I was driving to work)
Anyway, with the type of guest Art usually had on the air, I could only assume that Fr. Martin was far from sane. He sounded like a good guy, but I would be shocked to hear that Art Bell put someone with integrity and a sound mind on the air. But there’s alway a first time for everything, right?
Sounds like a passage from Hostage to the Devil where he explains demonic obsession, opression, possession, and “perfect possession.” I’ll try to find the passage, because hey, Context matters!
But I don’t think he has said anything heretical. He is describing “perfect possession” as the case where the human willingly offers himself to the devil completely with heart, soul, mind, liver, spleen etc. He describes such as situation as something an exorcist doesn’t have any luck with because the person has made his eternal choice willingly. In a normal possession, the person wants to be free, in these cases, the person wants to be “perfectly possessed.” They have the opportunity for repentance you mentioned, they just don’t want it.
As for God not driving the demon out - God loves us so completely, He would never take away our free will - even if that free will is choosing eternal damnation.
I have read the above book, and heard a number of recorded interviews with him. He seems to me to be a very good man with a very clear view of the evil around us all. Maybe that’s why there are people who want to discredit him?
I know he was released from some of his vows, or at least the Jesuit part, but he remained a priest for life. I know he was a scholar in ancient languages and worked with the dead sea scrolls and worked for the vatican as well. Someone I work with has read all that Father Martin wrote and occasionally steps in on boards like this when people are in need of direct quotations, or proper contexts of quotes. Maybe we can get him involved.
Your most certainly welcome. Thank you for receiving what was innocent and sincere curiosity. Good - we ought to pray for all of the dead, and this was your motive. The reason why I jumped in was because I have heard people’s displeasure with regards Mr. Martin, so like I said, I was a little presumptuous. I quite like the man.
Peace be to you (and to all) and Happy Easter. Christ is Risen, and death has been obliterated!
I am not sure about that. There are sins against the Holy Spirit (Ghost) that Our Lord in Scripture and what the Church teaches that are unforgivable. I am not sure what type of sins that they might be but I do know that they exist.
That is one sin- and I think that’s when you ignore the conviction of the Holy Spirit to turn to God up through the very end. Malachi Martin seems to be saying that a person can be so possessed that an exorcist cannot drive the demon out- like the demon is more powerful than the Name of Jesus.
Would any other radio talk show hosts have had Fr. Martin on as a guest? I read his work on the Jesuits and HOSTAGE…
Just guessing that many Coast to Coast listeners may have had need of Fr. Martin’s counsel. Without apology, I enjoy Coast to Coast; but some callers who dabble in occult are literally playing with fire.
Have met friends of Fr. John Hardon who spoke of his humility, joy and peace though they told how , over time and without ever hearing Fr. Hardon make mention of it, they saw other Jesuits shun him or treat him rudely. Maybe Fr. Martin wasn’t called to suffer that trial, but had other crosses.
(Any community can have internal difficulties here & there for short periods. We need the Jesuits!)
But I don’t think he has said anything heretical. He is describing “perfect possession” as the case where the human willingly offers himself to the devil completely with heart, soul, mind, liver, spleen etc.
It sounds like what is predicted to happen with the Antichrist. The Man of Sin will eventually come to offer himself for total possession by Satan, who will then entirely indwell within him and be in total control of his body. The closest thing to an “incarnation” of Satan possible.
He describes such as situation as something an exorcist doesn’t have any luck with because the person has made his eternal choice willingly.
That I disagree with. Humans are not angels, and we cannot make such irrevocable choices (which require total knowledge, which we do not have). A human has the possibility of choosing differently until they die, at which point no further situations would have changed their mind regarding the choices they made.
In a normal possession, the person wants to be free, in these cases, the person wants to be “perfectly possessed.” They have the opportunity for repentance you mentioned, they just don’t want it.
Still, I imagine they could come to want it.
But the hard thing about people like this, I imagine, is that there is no sign they are possessed. It is not that an excorcism wouldn’t worked if somehow a priest knew to preform it, but with a perfectly possessed person…there is no external sign to tell. Unless they accidentally get exposed to holy water or a blessed item and react strangely.
However, a person imperfectly possessed, who doesn’t want it or whatever…will be quite obvious. The kicking and screaming behavior commonly seen, the more obvious occurences of secret knowledge and preter-natural powers bubbling up, are still a sign of conflict in the body, still as sign that the person has not given up, or hasnt yet willed that their guardian angel stop defending them.
In a perfectly possessed person, there is no more conflict. The person has willingly offered up their body, and so God allows it.
I would not say they are beyond hope. If somehow it is found out that they are possessed, an excorcism could still work. But it is just so much harder to tell when they go around like an everyday person, no external signs and “crazy” behavior which is typical of the imperfectly possesed who are still in conflict.
I know he was released from some of his vows, or at least the Jesuit part, but he remained a priest for life.
I hear he was released from his most of his religious vows and allegiance to the Jesuits, but kept the vow of chastity, and was given private priestly faculties for the rest of his life. Basically, he left the Order but didnt join another one or a diocese, and so became sort of an independent priest, still bound by celibacy and answering to the Vatican, but only able to privately celebrate.
I answered this already with God’s allowing the free will of the person.
You have to remember the power of FREE WILL. If a soul doesn’t want God to deliver him/her from that possession, then the Exorcist can’t do anything then.