France and Islam

I know a few French people, some of whom are amongst the elite of France.

It appears there is some genuine fear in France about two things, the fall of Catholicism and the rise if Islam. Apparently 2,000 mosques have been approved for construction in France by the French government.

I heard say that some French believe that Islam is not being portrayed truthfully in France so as to discourage fear of jihad and sharia. Neither of which would be tolerated by the French.

French religious fleeing the jihad from Muslims wanting to impose Sharia in Iraq when asked if they were afraid said no, that they were more afraid for unsuspecting French who they fear are the next victims of the Jihadists. They also said that Islam in France was purposefully not portrayed as it truly is practiced in the Middle East. For example differences in Korans from France and the Middle East was mentioned. I do not know if this is true but the point that Islam in France was sugar coated was also mentioned.

The interesting thing about French elites is that they are united by friendship, a true sense of patriotism that supersedes other affections, a peculiar interest in the protection of France, and they are active and energetic. They also do not suffer from the peculiar scourge of political correctness that strangles free debate in the United States.

As for the French common people, they are very loving and compassionate people for the most part. At least the country folks. But they too are quick to unite and have no fear of their government. They are also not lazy in letting their discontent known. French families and friends are known to debate two things for hours; politics and food. I often wish Americans would do the same instead of talking about sports teams.

I have always wondered why there have been an unusual number of saints and apparitions from France. I suspect that in Europe, one of the first clashes between Islam and Christianity will be in the country formerly known as the daughter of the church.

Could get interesting.

France was a great bastion of faith, but now the Church is in decline. The devastating wars may-probably- had a lot to do with it. The “elite” most assuredly will not want to give up their status and positions on the ladder of elitism. They will be the first to bend and sway in the wind.

France is now a socialist country. While you say that the French are not lazy they are dependent on the graces of the government and the working poor. We-Americans- are going down that same road and the results are not really very promising. This you may not realize is that the French look down their noses at Americans and make fun of them as for not having any culture or history. Bear in mind that it was the poo and hungry that brought about the French Revolution.

France is now top heavy with immigrants that are being supported by the working poor, not the elite. A French Sister once told me how much better off and progressive the French were and how much better their standard of living was. I think the French forgot how helped them get back on their feet after the war.

There are great churches, great works of art and great people in France, and I am sure many unknown saints, and of course, good French wine.

They have invited jihad into their nation, just as we have. Paris is in a frightful state, but imagine what will happen once Islam dominates the French capital in the decades to come.

It is up to them whether they wish to continue their national suicide or not. Oui ou non?

Hm, I’m a Brit who is half-Italian and half-German and even I would appear to be less awful about the French.

Blueknight

It appears there is some genuine fear in France about two things, the fall of Catholicism and the rise if Islam. Apparently 2,000 mosques have been approved for construction in France by the French government.

Your remark really puzzled me. Where did you hear about anyone being afraid of the fall of Catholicism? The secular elites have been trying to crush Catholicism for, oh, two hundred years. Hardly anybody is a practicing Catholic anymore, although France isn’t quite as bad as Germany and the UK, where anti religious fever runs hot. At least that was my impression.

The interesting thing about French elites is that they are united by friendship, a true sense of patriotism that supersedes other affections, a peculiar interest in the protection of France, and they are active and energetic. They also do not suffer from the peculiar scourge of political correctness that strangles free debate in the United States.

My impression was that the elites all went to the same schools and came out like carbon copies of each other, always spouting the usual EU line, passionately secular, and screaming racism at the meekest, smallest indication you don’t think France needs floods of Muslim immigrants. And at the same time, the Jews in France, as if they hadn’t suffered enough, are having to flee France because of the real racism and hatred that aimed at them.

.So I am really interested in hearing a different take on this. You know French elites who aren’t politically correct and who are Catholic? It’s wonderful news.

God bless Annem

What on earth does ‘anti religious fever runs hot’ mean in the cases of Germany and the UK?

Well, my village shop has run out of matzos. Could that be the reason, do you think?

Oh, the ferocity of British religious apathy is far beyond those sorts of provocations.

You’re quite right. Our parish church had its annual fête a little while ago. Now, I suppose some people may have gone for the cakes, but most of us, I can assure you, were there to express how our anti-religious fever had run hot. The vicar, I’m sure, for instance, was in no doubt of the sinister implications of my conversation about the cricket.

Ah, you live in Midsomer as well! :wink:

The information I received was about Isis or radical Islamists not Islam.

A moderator changed the title and I do not feel it necessary to post in this thread anymore.

I will add that my family helped Jewish families escape he Nazis in France during the Second World War at great risk to themselves and I would be careful about making blanket statements about the French.

What France and your family did for the Jews 70 years ago they probably would not do today. The world has changed-cultures change-values changed-morals changed. However, there is a chance that the pendulum will swing back and maybe “reset” just as our own politics and conservitisum is now slowly finding a new, more balanced. Oh, darn-my spelling again!

Kaninchen

What on earth does ‘anti religious fever runs hot’ mean in the cases of Germany and the UK?

The Pew Research Center recently released an index of countries based on religious restrictions and religious social hostility. Guess what. Germany and the UK both fell into the “high” category of social hostility to religion. Although here is the good news: both were found to be less hostile than Tunisia and Mali.

God bless, Annem

Picky Picky

Our parish church had its annual fête a little while ago.

Are you sure you’re not quoting from a book by Agatha Christie circa 1935?

God bless, Annem

Mary Estelle

What France and your family did for the Jews 70 years ago they probably would not do today.

Alas, you are probably right. here’s an interesting article on the subject from, of all things, the liberal Atlantic magazine:

Is It Time for the Jews to Leave Europe?

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The situation is truly heartbreaking.

God bless Annem

Kaninchen

Oh, the ferocity of British religious apathy is far beyond those sorts of provocations.

I certainly wish there were nothing but religious apathy. What a relief that would be, instead of the outright hostility as verified in the Pew research study.

But let me give you an example that might open your eyes, although I am sure it will deeply disturb you.

There are actually atheists in the UK so filled with malice and venom that they spend their time visiting Christian websites to try and harm the faith of believers. Yes, yes, it’s quite true. Even though, if you were an atheist, that would make no sense - why would you bother in a meaningless universe - but perhaps atheists sometimes suffer from a deficit of logic… At any rate, no one could ever accuse them of lacking in ugly spite, don’t you think?

God bless, Annem

I’m sure that’s terribly profound in some way to you but it’s just you interpreting some survey you’ve come across to me. For example, I’m sure certain fundamentalist Sunnis see not being allowed to push gays off high buildings as being terribly restrictive, an affront to their religious dignity and feel terribly threatened/victimised by the social hostility to them doing so but many of us would tend to disagree with them that such restrictions amount to persecution.

But let me give you an example that might open your eyes, although I am sure it will deeply disturb you.

There are actually atheists in the UK so filled with malice and venom that they spend their time visiting Christian websites to try and harm the faith of believers. Yes, yes, it’s quite true. Even though, if you were an atheist, that would make no sense - why would you bother in a meaningless universe - but perhaps atheists sometimes suffer from a deficit of logic… At any rate, no one could ever accuse them of lacking in ugly spite, don’t you think?

I’m no more disturbed by that than I’m disturbed by the idea of Christians turning up on the sites of others trying to harm their faith/non-faith – yes, yes it’s quite true, Christians do that sort of thing.

I see the Pew Research shows the United States way, way higher than the UK for government restrictions on religion. Anti-religious restrictions run hot, I’d have said.

Sounds a bit like it, doesn’t it? But nope, England is still England.

Like another poster said no one in France cares about the decline/fall of Catholicism. The dominant French political parties and elites have been working to weaken and destroy the church since at least the french third republic and probably longer. The population has been nominal and declining for so long that you’d need to go back way further than now to show reasonable concern. What some french people are worried about is the decline of secularism (those pesky muslims still care about that silly old thing called religion which is so not french) which is much more important to the elites modern perception of French identity (just like in Quebec) . Modern western European far right parties are set up to feed off of the anti immigrant/muslim feelings in Europe and they do so in France.

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