Free Muslim Coalition


#1

Peace be with you!

For those on our board who hate our Muslim brothers and sisters and accuse them of supporting terrorism:
freemuslims.org/

In Christ,
Rand


#2

Hello,
Unfortunately these people can not control the 72 virgin seekers.

In Christ,
selvaraj


#3

[quote=Rand Al’Thor]Peace be with you!

For those on our board who hate our Muslim brothers and sisters and accuse them of supporting terrorism:
freemuslims.org/

In Christ,
Rand
[/quote]

Got a message for you on my thread.

So when the Muslims are going to abolish Islam?

Soon, the world hope.


#4

Let us pray that either this form of Islam prevails or Islam ceases to exist.

Dan L


#5

[quote=Rand Al’Thor]Peace be with you!

For those on our board who hate our Muslim brothers and sisters and accuse them of supporting terrorism:
freemuslims.org/

In Christ,
Rand
[/quote]

Thanks for this one! In my readings of Islam, I have learned that tolarance is one of the assets of this faith. So what happened? Why did this faith produced terrorists or extremists? I will be thankful if I will get an answer directly from a Muslim.

Trying to seek the truth.

manx


#6

[quote=USCatholic]Got a message for you on my thread.

So when the Muslims are going to abolish Islam?

Soon, the world hope.
[/quote]

Yeah, I saw your message. How dare you call me a coward? And I wasn’t apologizing for anything. What the point of this was is to show you guys that there ARE in fact Muslims out there who are actively speaking out against terrorism. And, I might add, they are doing a LOT more than you are to fight it.


#7

[quote=selvaraj]Hello,
Unfortunately these people can not control the 72 virgin seekers.j
[/quote]

Hello Selvaraj,

I seek 72 Virgins in Heaven, and there is nothing wrong with that. But I dont believe in killing Innocent people, which are two completly seperate concepts.

Munawar


#8

[quote=manx]Thanks for this one! In my readings of Islam, I have learned that tolarance is one of the assets of this faith. So what happened? Why did this faith produced terrorists or extremists? I will be thankful if I will get an answer directly from a Muslim.
[/quote]

Hi Manx,

Poverty corrupts, just as much as being wealthy. Extremism is visible anywhere where the conditions are forced upon people are not acceptable.

Munawar


#9

[quote=Munawar]Hello Selvaraj,

I seek 72 Virgins in Heaven, and there is nothing wrong with that. But I dont believe in killing Innocent people, which are two completly seperate concepts.

Munawar
[/quote]

I’ll have to disagree with you on that first part. I think there is something wrong with seeking to have possession of 72 virgins in Heaven (and possession is the only way to describe it; they have no say in the matter. they are given to you simply for your personal pleasure to do with as you please). After all the talk in the Bible (Old and New Testaments) about sexual immorality, I don’t think God would allow us to have sex with 72 women for eternity. That would make adultery on earth null and void because “whatsoever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven”.

Orgies in Heaven. I’ve heard of the “new Jerusalem” but not the “new Sodom and Gomorrah”.


#10

[quote=Rand Al’Thor]I’ll have to disagree with you on that first part. I think there is something wrong with seeking to have possession of 72 virgins in Heaven (and possession is the only way to describe it; they have no say in the matter. they are given to you simply for your personal pleasure to do with as you please). After all the talk in the Bible (Old and New Testaments) about sexual immorality, I don’t think God would allow us to have sex with 72 women for eternity. That would make adultery on earth null and void because “whatsoever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven”.

Orgies in Heaven. I’ve heard of the “new Jerusalem” but not the “new Sodom and Gomorrah”.
[/quote]

Hello Rand,

Is it wrong for God to have possession of all of Humanity and the Angelic realm?

The 72 Virgins mentioned are called “Houris” - beings whose only purpose is to serve humans in Heaven. Angels are similar, except they only serve God.

Also - you mentioned immorality. Islamically - in Heaven there is no immorality or sin. Everything that happens there is free of vice or human failing. Everything there is good, including many wives etc.

If I do good, and Allah finds me in the elect, then I hope he gives me many treasures, the least of which are 72 Virgins.

Munawar


#11

Peace be with you, Munawar!

[quote=Munawar]Hello Rand,

Is it wrong for God to have possession of all of Humanity and the Angelic realm? **The difference is that He is God; we are humans. He created Heaven and earth, so of course he would have possession of it. **

The 72 Virgins mentioned are called “Houris” - beings whose only purpose is to serve humans in Heaven. Angels are similar, except they only serve God. Angels serve God by praising him and helping us through our trials and troubles by either intercession or prayer. These Houris serve humans by being sexual slaves to them. I don’t believe that God would create or even allow something in Heaven that is expressly forbidden as immoral on earth.

Also - you mentioned immorality. Islamically - in Heaven there is no immorality or sin. Everything that happens there is free of vice or human failing. Everything there is good, including many wives etc. That is why I don’t believe this. Christianity teaches that having more than one wife is immoral also that having sex with more than one person is immoral.

If I do good, and Allah finds me in the elect, then I hope he gives me many treasures, the least of which are 72 Virgins. I do hope you recieve your rewards in Heaven, but I think you may end up being disappointed with the 72 virgins.

Munawar
[/quote]

In Christ,
Rand


#12

[quote=Munawar]Hello Selvaraj,

I seek 72 Virgins in Heaven, and there is nothing wrong with that. But I dont believe in killing Innocent people, which are two completly seperate concepts.

Munawar
[/quote]

Theres nothing wrong with engaging in sex with multiple partners, some of which include young boys??


#13

The Free Muslims Coalition web site lists the following beliefs, which I have copied directly from their site at www.freemuslims.org:

We believe in the re-interpretation of Islam for the 21st century where terrorism is not justified under any circumstances.

We believe in the separation of religion and state.

We believe that democracy is the best form of government.

We believe in the promotion of secularism in all forms of political activity.

We believe that equality for women is an inalienable right.

We believe that religion is a personal relationship between the individual and his or her God and is not to be forced on anyone.

My question is this: At least to my understanding, Islam is considered by Muslims to be a complete way of life rather than just a religion. If I understand correctly (which I admit is never a sure thing), a nonbeliever standing in the way of the spread of Islamic law may legitimately be fought against or killed. How can this definition of Islam as a total way of life, including control of law/shariah, allow for the concepts of separation of church and state and democratic government utilizing secular political institutions and processes?

The first belief listed from the site is a belief in the reinterpretation of Islam for the 21st century. I would like to hear some Muslim responses to this. Do you agree with this idea of reinterpreting Islam, or that this is even necessary? Would this reinterpretation necessarily repudiate a literal interpretation of the Koran? If not, can a literal interpretation of the Koran allow for the above-listed beliefs?

Thanks in advance for any responses. I have learned a great deal about Islam in this thread over the past few days, and I very much appreciate the sharing of information.


#14

[quote=Suzie1962]The first belief listed from the site is a belief in the reinterpretation of Islam for the 21st century.
[/quote]

But that’s the same for Christianity too. In Europe there used to be no such thing as seperation of church and state. Take England for example, especially post-Reformation. The English monarch was (and still is, technically) the head of the Church of England.


#15

[quote=Munawar]Hello Selvaraj,

I seek 72 Virgins in Heaven, and there is nothing wrong with that. But I dont believe in killing Innocent people, which are two completly seperate concepts.

Munawar
[/quote]

I am sorry but that just makes my skin crawl:nope: The idea of God giving you 72 virgins to use for your sexual gratification is nothing less than appalling to me:eek: I keep hearing that muslems respect women and if in your eyes God doesn’t respect them,how can that be?


#16

[quote=Munawar]Hello Selvaraj,

I seek 72 Virgins in Heaven, and there is nothing wrong with that. But I dont believe in killing Innocent people, which are two completly seperate concepts.

Munawar
[/quote]

Hello Munawar,
Your terrorists are always quote this Qura`n word for their suicide attack.
In Christ,
selvaraj


#17

[quote=Rand Al’Thor]Yeah, I saw your message. How dare you call me a coward? And I wasn’t apologizing for anything. What the point of this was is to show you guys that there ARE in fact Muslims out there who are actively speaking out against terrorism. And, I might add, they are doing a LOT more than you are to fight it.
[/quote]

Hi guys,

Chill out! We don’t want to have disunity amongst Christians here. I have been touching-base with my old Muslim buddies to confirm how they are reacting to anti-terrorist issues. All of them are supporting it however they are somehow blaming the international policies of Uncle Sam (and its allies) for provoking extremism. Maybe I should investigate this point further.

manx


#18

[quote=Lisa4Catholics]I am sorry but that just makes my skin crawl:nope: The idea of God giving you 72 virgins to use for your sexual gratification is nothing less than appalling to me:eek: I keep hearing that muslems respect women and if in your eyes God doesn’t respect them,how can that be?
[/quote]

Im with you Lisa, i find the whole thing nauseating, in fact after doing some research into this, i found out that they are forever young girls, and young BOYS! homosexuality is seen as a good and pleasureable thing for them. its vile, disgusting and Thank the Good Lord that its all garbage! when will they wake up and see??


#19

Why Islam? What have we learned so far?
[list=1]
*]Insist that violent passages in the Quran only apply to long-ago historical incidents (like the battle of Badr), but then also insist that the Quran is a book of guidance "for all times and all people."
*]Insist that Muhammad’s actions can’t be judged by today’s more humane human rights standards, while at the same time, and insist that he is the perfect “Model” for all Mankind today.
*]Insist that Islam is a “religion of peace”, while at the same time, brag about the great military victories of Muhammad, Abu Bakr, Umar, Khalid bin Al-Waheed and Saladin.
*]Insist that Islam is “not a missionary religion”, while at the same time publish endless articles about “how to do dawah” on hundreds of dawah websites. (dawah means invitation to Islam).
*]Insist that “truth stands from error” and that Islam can stand on its own merits as the “one true religion”, while laboring endlessly to squash all criticism and discussion of Islam.
*]Insist that the laws in Saudi Arabia, Iran and Afghanistan are unIslamic while trying to get them implemented in the west, India and other kafir societies.
*]Insist that women achieve TRUE liberation through Islam! Never mind those pesky ideas about real equality with men in all areas of life, men and women are so different, and shari’ah “realistically” acknowledges these differences, unlike those evil man-made law systems that suggest otherwise!
*]Insist how “liberating” it is for women to wear a piece of cloth on their heads.
*]Insist that Jihad has nothing to do with violence. It’s simply struggling with pen; tongue etc. at the same time looking for atomic bomb to use in Kafir countries.
*]Insist that most of the scientific inventions were foretold in Quran but no one ever invented anything out of Quran.
*]Insist that Muslims should enjoy all human rights and make infinite number of mosques in western countries but ban Kafirs from Mecca and Medina. Preaching of any other religion is not allowed in any Islamic country.
*]Insist that women in Islam are privileged in an unparalleled manner and their equality with men have never been achieved in history like it was done in Islam, yet use every trick in the book to show that they lack the wisdom and fair judgment of men and consequently, men must reserve the right to BEAT them if they go astray, of course as a “last resort”.
*]Insist that Islam is against slavery and then demonstrate how humanely Muhammad treated HIS SLAVES as proof of it.
*]Insist that Islam “Is a complete way of life”, not just a religion. But when others criticize things like the burka and honor killings, say that it’s the fault of “culture”, not Islam.
*]Insist that the Quran is the word of god, is protected against corruption, and is unchanged since Muhammad’s death, despite the existence of multiple versions and histories attesting to changes that were made.
*]Insist in demanding for more rights and perks from kafirs in kafir countries via freedom of religion, while condoning the killing of the kafirs in Islamic countries and preventing them from following their religion.
*]Insist that Islam liberated women when no Islamic society treats them nicely.
*]Insist that Islam will one day dominate the world when Muslim countries are sinking deeper in poverty and soon will face massive starvation.
*]Insist that Muhammad was a perfect role model and a Mercy of God among men and hide the fact that he lied, raped, tortured, killed, robbed and was a pedophile.
*]Insist that Quran cannot be translated into any other tongue except Arabic, the language of God, when those who say this themselves do not know how to speak Arabic.
[/list]


#20

More…
[list=1]
*]Insist that terrorist attacks in the name of Islam are not perpetrated by Muslims, but the countries who are the victims of the terrorist attacks deserve it because of their foreign policy towards Islamic countries.
*]Insist on the evils of the Western culture and the virtues of Islam but at the same time do everything possible to immigrate to the West in order to escape oppression of the Islamic countries.
*]Insist that Muslims are persecuted in Israel, India, Philippines, Thailand, etc but continue expanding Islamic terrorism around the world.
*]Insist that Islam is a logical religion and everyone with pure motives will become a Muslim while forgetting that their own ancestors were forced to accept Islam and many were killed for resisting.
*]Insist that only Islam (Quran and Sahih Hadiths) is the Absolute Truth and that every other religious book is corrupted and unreliable, but at the same time try to ‘prove’ Islam by referring to the same “corrupted” sources that they decry.
*]Insist that some of the Sahih (‘reliable’) Hadiths are actually not reliable at all but at the same time not recognizing the problems this poses for the claim that Sharia is the only valid legal system, as the Sharia laws are based for a big part on those Sahih Hadith collections.
*]Insist that Islam has no superstitions while there are prescribed prayers and rituals to combat black magic, witchcraft, sorcery, evil eyes, stone throwing jinns etc.
*]Criticize Western governments for killing Muslims but remain silent in general when it comes to Muslim governments killing Muslims.
*]Claim how Arab civilization contributed to modern civilization but yet fail to address why the least civilized countries in today’s world are Arab and Muslim countries (note: high illiteracy, high unemployment, low standard of living).
*]Insist that Christianity is pagan but yet follows a prophet who originally claimed that the pagan high god of his people, the Arabs, is the one true God.
*]Attack Christianity by saying that the Bible has contradictions, but yet appeal to the very same bible to find prophecies about Muhammad in it. Hence we have a prophet and a god, named Allah who contradicts himself.
*]Criticize Israel for invading Israel but remain silent when Arab Muslims invaded Africa 13 centuries ago and then say that Islam made them civilized! (So it’s okay if Arabs invade other people’s country as long as it is done in a civilized manner).
*]Claim that Zionism is trying to rule the world when the entire Middle East is controlled by Islamic and Arab ruling countries
*]Presents Zionism as being racism but yet follows a holy book and prophet which says they must kill Jews just for being Jewish. Go figure.
*]Present pictures of alleged American atrocities against Muslim children but make no attempt to show pictures of how Saddam, the Taliban and other Algerian Islamic groups murder Muslims.
*]Claim that St. Paul was a self-proclaimed apostle while following Muhammad who was the only one to promote himself as the “seal of apostles”.
*]Claim that Muhammad spoke the words of God even though their own evidence stems from the words of Muhammad who assumed that he spoke the words of God which is to be assumed to be true since we must assume that Muhammad is an apostle. Talk about circular reasoning.
[/list]


DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.