Free Speech or Blood in the Streets (Charlottesville)

Here is a well reasoned video discussing the incident at Charlottesville by a reporter who was in the middle of the protests and an atheist philosopher. (The reporter stated she sprinkled herself with holy water for protection, so may be Catholic!).

The gist of the video is the dichotomy between the acceptance of identity politics of the left and the renunciation of identity politics of the right. It relates specific activities by the government and police towards the right vs the left. In this situation the right being shut down through denial of permits then police action, while the leftist antifa protestors having no permit, and yet once again the police disappeared during their actions.

At minute 16:00 the philosopher states when a political system shuts down free expression of ideas and grievances it always leads to violence using the idiom “free speech or blood in the streets”.

Well worth a few minutes of time in this period eroding political discourse and civility.

A good example of Whataboutism.

Here’s a thought:

How about free speech without violence or bloodshed of any kind?

All patriotic Americans want to know: Why didn’t James Alex Fields’ Christian family and pastor inform authorities of his radicalization?

What renunciation of identity politics on the part of the Right? The Right plays its own version of identity politics, and has been doing so for the last several decades, at least.

Thanks for posting. I didn’t see a lot of news yesterday, but enough that I was careful
about how the media was telling the story. I can’t stand Terry MCAuliffe and I didn’t find his press conference helpful. He had already judged one side.
I for one don’t understand why these Civil War statues are all of a sudden seen as evil and their need for removal is applauded. Do they plan erasing the Civil War from
history books too? The Civil War was an important part of our history. There were many casualties on both sides. Historians have studied the battles of generals from both the north and south. These statues of generals are part of our history.
The people had proper permits to gather and it wasn’t until the usual troublemakers
showed up that the problems began. I don’t like violence of any kind. There is nothing wrong with a peaceful protest and the two opposing sides should have not been allowed to be in the same areas.

That’s exactly why I applaud him. Trump didn’t have the guts to do that.

I for one don’t understand why these Civil War statues are all of a sudden seen as evil and their need for removal is applauded.

You may be right. But that does not translate into an entitlement to preserve the statues. As I said in the other thread on this protest, there is a huge moral difference between wanting and getting.

Since Trumps administration has started a civil rights investigation into this incident, he really can’t comment more than he has without predjudicing the case…they want a conviction on this one that cant be questioned.


It is astonishing to me that members of a Catholic forum are not vehemently and absolutely condemning the alt-right and all it stands for. Including this march and its ensuing violence. Instead, I see comments suggesting that there are two equally understandable sides. I thought I was past shocking easily, but apparently not.

I’m with you. There’s a long history of Catholics supporting fascism; just look at Franco’s regime in Spain. A lot of Catholics, including Chesterton, were fond of Mussolini at first, though a lot of folks were in general.

I’ll put it this way. Younger right-wingers feel as if the previous generations of Conservatives and right-wingers have failed them, they got soft. Thus you have the left-wing dominating the culture war through Academia and politics, the previous generations failed because look at what we have today, rampant degeneneracy, nihilism and hedonism. You can’t tell the difference between the left-wing and right-wing. There is no conservatism anymore. They failed, so they look for people who are not spineless and want to get things done.

…or maybe they just had unrealistic expectations.

Let’s call it what it is then --they’re looking for Nazis. Who certainly "got things done."
These people weren’t protesting rampant degeneracy–they were protesting for white supremacy. They were marching for evil, plain and simple.

You probably don’t spend enough time on this site if you are shocked by this.

Is this happening in England?

To an extent, it’s something happening all across the West. However, English people generally are very left-wing, especially among younger people and unlike Americans don’t really question the narratives the media spins. There is right-wing movement but the thing is, America is much bigger and everything in America is on a larger scale.

Not really surprising. Let’s get to the heart of the problem and we’ll see a two major factors contributing to this.
The first is the loss of trust in the media. We can’t deny this and continuing to do so is dangerous. And this is unfortunately still happening. The source of this distrust: many journalists have been unfair to and deliberately lie about American Christians faithful to Church teachings. They’re patronising at times and pretend all criticisms of them are illegitimate. This has been going on for at least a decade, I know older people have said it began in the 1990s. In recent years, some saw an opportunity in exploiting this distrust in the traditional news outlets. They post favourable things then mix in wild conspiratorial content. It’s a form of grooming, just like how gangs and Islamist terror groups do it.
The second is how people link views they oppose to some of the worst people. One example is some will label any government intervention in healthcare as communism. Another is some will label opposition to same-sex ‘marriage’ as a form of Nazism. Once you start blurring the boundaries, it shouldn’t be surprising decent people can be pulled into things like the alt-right.
As long as we treat the symptom rather than the cause, the same thing will repeat itself over and over and over again.

The blatant support for White Supremacy on this site is getting worse and worse.

I hate Nazis and I hate their speech. I hate them in the same way I might hate a paedophile demanding he be allowed to rape children in public. Such a man would likely get beaten up, and the same should be expected for fascists.

I also don’t understand why counter protests are somehow an illegitimate expression of free speech to you people. I think you might well have some sympathy towards white nationalism.

Just wanted to add sometimes you feel like a Cassandra. No one cares about where the problem *actually *emanates from. The best you can do is just watch and see the unending misery and chaos unfold in front of you.

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