Free Will in Heaven


#1

We have all heard the term before, “eternal happiness” or “suffering for all eternity” in relation to where we will end up after we die. In other words, where we end up, Heaven or hell, we will be there for all eternity, which got me thinking. Is it possible to get kicked out of Heaven? If we have free will here on earth, I would assume that we would have free will in Heaven. So, would it be safe to say that if someone got to Heaven and decided to do something bad, would they get kicked out? Although I can’t imagine anyone wanting to do that after experiencing the total joy and happiness of Heaven. After all, Lucifer was in Heaven and got kicked out and God created hell specifically for Lucifer and his “followers” and those that chose to ignor God.

Thank you and God Bless and hope everyone has a very blessed and joyous New Year.

Mark


#2

[quote=MTH]We have all heard the term before, “eternal happiness” or “suffering for all eternity” in relation to where we will end up after we die. In other words, where we end up, Heaven or hell, we will be there for all eternity, which got me thinking. Is it possible to get kicked out of Heaven? If we have free will here on earth, I would assume that we would have free will in Heaven. So, would it be safe to say that if someone got to Heaven and decided to do something bad, would they get kicked out? Although I can’t imagine anyone wanting to do that after experiencing the total joy and happiness of Heaven. After all, Lucifer was in Heaven and got kicked out and God created hell specifically for Lucifer and his “followers” and those that chose to ignor God.

Thank you and God Bless and hope everyone has a very blessed and joyous New Year.

Mark
[/quote]

The Angels were given a one time choice to love God or reject him. Satan and other angels rejected him and were thrown out of Heaven. The angels who chose to love God can only do his will now. They have no free will so why would we once we are joined with God.


#3

[quote=MTH]Free Will in Heaven?]

[/quote]

Good question. I think Purgatory is there to make us compatible with heaven. I doubt if you made it through Purgatory you would be likely to fall back.


#4

The way I see it, when we are united with God in heaven we will be outside of time altogether. Yes, there’s free will. However, there is only one choice to make… to live with God forever in eternal happiness, or to live without Him in eternal suffering. If there’s no time, then there is no time to change one’s mind.

This decision for or against God is of the same kind as the angels had upon their creation. Since they exist outside of time, their decisions are eternal, and they don’t change their minds. It is not that they were incapable of freely making a decision, it is that they did, once and for all.

As for Lucifer being in heaven and getting himself kicked out, this is what I think: Lucifer was created to be the prince of all the angels, as Michael is now. When he came into being he rejected his Creator for whatever reason (traditionally it is assumed that his sin was a sin of pride, because he would not accept the fact that God would become man, an inferior being to himself). This all happened at the moment of his creation, outside of time. He will never repent for the same reason that Michael will never fall. They reject and accept God perpetually.

It is difficult for us to understand these things because we live inside of time. When we die, we will have the same kind of choice to make. May we all choose rightly and live in perfect happiness with God eternally.

God bless,

Agricola


#5

Hello MTH,

I think if you murdered someone in heaven that would not make it heaven. There will be no starving people for you to choose not to feed in heaven nor will there be the opportunity to commit adultery. People eternally begotten of God will be One with God in the Kingdom of God and they will not be free from His will. Saints will have no free will to sin in heaven.

Angels are spiritual but they can not possess eternal life, if they do possess eternal life, until after God’s first born, Jesus Christ, is eternally begotten of God (PSA 2:4)(ACT 13:32)(HEB 1:5)(ACT 2:33). Jesus assures us that no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are begotten of God (JOH 3:3). Satan is never begotten of God. Scripture tells us that angels, including fallen angel Satan, are in ‘heaven’ before Christ’s death and ressurection. What ever scripture is referring to as ‘heaven’ before Christ’s ressurection is not God’s eternal kingdom which is born into heaven through the blood of the Lamb. Satan is cast out of ‘heaven’ by the power of the blood of the Lamb (REV 12:7-12). Satan dies in the ‘second death’(REV 20). Saints born into eternal life as a part of God’s eternal kingdom, cannot be harmed by the second death (REV 2:11)(REV 20:6). Fallen angel Satan is never part of God’s eternal kingdom which is born into in heaven through the blood of the Lamb.


#6

[quote=Angainor]Good question. I think Purgatory is there to make us compatible with heaven. I doubt if you made it through Purgatory you would be likely to fall back.
[/quote]

If you make it to Purgatory you are already saved. There is no way from there to Hell. You can only go one way and that is to Heaven after purification.


#7

[quote=MTH] If we have free will here on earth, I would assume that we would have free will in Heaven.
[/quote]

My opinion: While we do have free will here on earth our wills are often conflicted because we live in a fallen world and face temptations. In heaven we will see things as they really are, so we will see sin as ugly as it really is. We’ll have free will in heaven, but seeing things as they really are, we (and our wills) will be truly free so we won’t struggle with the temptation to sin.


#8

[quote=gardenswithkids]My opinion: While we do have free will here on earth our wills are often conflicted because we live in a fallen world and face temptations. In heaven we will see things as they really are, so we will see sin as ugly as it really is. We’ll have free will in heaven, but seeing things as they really are, we (and our wills) will be truly free so we won’t struggle with the temptation to sin.
[/quote]

We won’t share in his divinity but in Heaven we will be united with God.There is no sin in Heaven or any temptation.


#9

[quote=thistle]There is no sin in Heaven or any temptation.
[/quote]

That was the point I was trying to make. We won’t want to sin because our wills will be truly free. Sin is a form of slavery, not a form of freedom.


#10

I once had a dream which made me reflect on this same topic. This was a subject I always avoided because it was so hard to even imagine myself without free will. To some extent this dream gave me a sense of relief, and a possible insight of what might happen to me when God decides to call me home. Please understand I am not a theologian or anything like it, so I may be completely wrong. I haven’t checked to see what the church says on this matter. I will share it with you anyway.

It was a normal sunny day, I was walking in the street, when all of a sudden, I am left all alone and there is no one else but me. I was a little frightened, but then I felt Jesus was with me, and I remember thinking, “Ok, I guess this is my time” and I peacefully surrendered to what ever God had in store for me. Suddenly a cloud takes me up to a place, I can’t say its heaven, because I have never been there. In this place there was so much light and other regular people were walking towards it. I never saw Jesus or anything like it, but I knew he was with me. Then, I turned around and saw a dark place that even more people were walking towards it. Just by looking at it, it brought back feelings of impurity etc, feelings that were known to me, almost as if I was reliving moments I had already felt during my life. I knew these were my feelings and I felt attraction towards them, they were a part of me. I started walking towards the dark place, but Jesus’s love was still with me, and all of a sudden, I felt that His love was growing stronger and that I needed to go back. I heard someone from within the crowd say " Just leave." When I turned around the place of light was very far way. I remember thinking it was so easy to cross into the darkness, but now it’s so hard to go back. I had to pass through so many torments. It was like if my sins became physical and I had to go through them again but this time in complete remorse. Don’t know how to explain it. It was so painful, but I really wanted to go back. I finally woke up, and for what ever reason I understood the following. It is not that we are not free in heaven. It’s that here on earth, because of free will, we can disguise who we truly are. We need free will in order to form our conscience, but once we die, our conscience is already formed and sealed. We can no longer act differently than what we truly are, and that’s why I was not able to walk away from the negative things I was attracted to. I guess I stopped before going completely into the dark place, and this is probably what some may call purgatory " Not completely damned. " I felt as if we no longer had free will, but we were still ourselves without the ability to lie. When I woke up, I was in physical pain and my limbs were very week. What does this dream mean? maybe nothing, but it made me feel that loosing my free will does not necessarily mean I loose myself in the process. This was somewhat of a relief. Another thing I understood is the importance of loving Jesus, since it was His love that made me stop from walking further into the dark place. It made me think of the Bible verse when someone asked Jesus what is the greatest commandment and He replied something like, Love your God with all your heart, with all your soul etc. I think I understood why, since it was this love that held me back from going further into the darkness, but if you don’t have that love, I don’t know how you can stop. Maybe the amount of darkness inside of you determines how far you walk into it. I don’t know, but I Thank you Jesus for being so merciful, may he help all of us always avoid darkness. :slight_smile:


#11

Seeing God face to face, we cannot possibly desire any good above him. That is why the saints in heaven do not fall. The angels who fell did not yet enjoy the Beatific Vision. It was a test. As it is now for us.


#12

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