Freemason Apologetics


#1

I can’t believe that the Catholic Church is no longer concerned about the threat of Freemasonry! They are using our philosophy and theology to their own ends, and it is growing at a rapid rate! I am shocked that first of all nobody seems to be concerned about this, and secondly that the thread on the subject was closed! Nobody is worried about the Freemasons anymore? You really, really should be. The goal of freemasonry from the beginning has been a one-world church and govt, and they are moving closer to that goal everyday. Eventually you guys are going to have to stop obessessing with the protestants and deal with the New Age threat – because that is where the real threat is. Catholics need to take their heads out of the sand and take a stand against the global institution that has vowed to extinguish the Church more than once! Do you think this is no longer their goal? Or is it that all the Catholics are okay with freemasonry now, since your favorite president is a Freemason? If George Bush says it’s okay, then it must be, right?


#2

I don’t have a President, and I’m not worried about Freemasonry either, because like all heresies, and like history has taught us, they will come and go, and the Church will deal with everything necessary in due time.


#3

[quote=tiny’smommy]I can’t believe that the Catholic Church is no longer concerned about the threat of Freemasonry! They are using our philosophy and theology to their own ends, and it is growing at a rapid rate! I am shocked that first of all nobody seems to be concerned about this, and secondly that the thread on the subject was closed! Nobody is worried about the Freemasons anymore? You really, really should be. The goal of freemasonry from the beginning has been a one-world church and govt, and they are moving closer to that goal everyday. Eventually you guys are going to have to stop obessessing with the protestants and deal with the New Age threat – because that is where the real threat is. Catholics need to take their heads out of the sand and take a stand against the global institution that has vowed to extinguish the Church more than once! Do you think this is no longer their goal? Or is it that all the Catholics are okay with freemasonry now, since your favorite president is a Freemason? If George Bush says it’s okay, then it must be, right?
[/quote]

There is nothing new about a threat from the Freemasons. By the way they are not just anti-Catholic but anti-Christian.
Every Catholic knows or should know that it is not only a mortal sin to become a freemason but means ex-communication from the Church.
If you want some insights do as earch in these forums for freemasons and you will find really good comments from freemasons who have given up and reverted to the Church.


#4

Could you provide any solid examples of the claims you’ve made? Also, Bush was in the Skull and Bones secret society and the Delta Kappa Epsilon fraternity at Yale, but I’ve never heard that he was a Freemason- why do you make this claim?


#5

My brother (not a Catholic) is a freemason, 32nd degree. I worry about his salvation constantly. My mom thinks I am absolutley silly for this. There have been several threads on Freemasons. There have been many, many presidents who are/were freemasons. Rumors abound that the government was basically founded and controlled by freemasons. I’ve come to the point where I don’t even think I can vote any more. So, please don’t tell me I’m not worried about freemasons.


#6

I’ve also heard the President Bush is a Freemason. If I may ask, what is the big deal with freemasonry? (I don’t doubt the Chruch, I just wish to know the reasoning.)


#7

[quote=trumpet152]I’ve also heard the President Bush is a Freemason. If I may ask, what is the big deal with freemasonry? (I don’t doubt the Church, I just wish to know the reasoning.)
[/quote]

it is reputed to be highly anticlerical as well as basically deist and that some of the secret higher order initiations were anti-catholic in nature (although I don’t know…they’re secret)

Although I remember a mason telling me that historically the church and the masons were aligned with many Popes being masons until one Pope or another wanted to do something the masons didn’t like and the two groups feel out. (His position was basically “you guys started it”)
He also said that modern masons aren’t like they used to be and that it was all a big misunderstanding and that they would have no problem with Catholics joining.

I took what he said with a grain or three of salt.

Historically I do know that members of such anti-catholic groups as the Orangemen and the Know-Nothings were masons and that many masons were active in the political movements that lead to the dismemberment of the Papal States so it may have been a guilt by association thing. IFAIK the masons were also strong advocates of church state separation and that was a contentious issue in the 19th century especially in areas of Italy where the Church was that state

But I’m sure that there are better reasons that I don’t know about


#8

Freemasonry is largely a benevolent society in America and is hardly what it was at one time, ie. a large political force. I was a Mason and 32nd degree Scottish Rite Mason, until I joined the Church. I demitted from my lodge because of my desire to be obedient to the Church, but I can honestly say, that I participated in nothing, and encountered nothing, that was contrary to my Christian faith (although not at the time Catholic.)

Furthermore, when I left Masonry, I was never bothered, questioned, or coerced to remain a Mason, the Masons I know all believe that your duty to God, Country, and Family, surpass any loyalty you owe to the lodge, in fact that is part of one of the degrees.

Again, this is US masonry, I cannot speak for Masonry outside the US, which I have heard can be very different.

Peace,
Brandon


#9

[quote=SDA2RC]Freemasonry is largely a benevolent society in America and is hardly what it was at one time, ie. a large political force. I was a Mason and 32nd degree Scottish Rite Mason, until I joined the Church. I demitted from my lodge because of my desire to be obedient to the Church, but I can honestly say, that I participated in nothing, and encountered nothing, that was contrary to my Christian faith (although not at the time Catholic.)

Furthermore, when I left Masonry, I was never bothered, questioned, or coerced to remain a Mason, the Masons I know all believe that your duty to God, Country, and Family, surpass any loyalty you owe to the lodge, in fact that is part of one of the degrees.

Again, this is US masonry, I cannot speak for Masonry outside the US, which I have heard can be very different.

Peace,
Brandon
[/quote]

If you made it through 32 degrees of SR freemasonry, and saw nothing unChristian, then you were likely not paying attention. You are likely steeped in naturalistic philosophy.

Maybe you do not realize it, maybe you worked through it.

Here is a link to Albert Pike’s Morals and Dogma- the guide to the 32 degrees:

freemasons-freemasonry.com/apikefr.html

It is full of talk of the knowledge of gnostics and the kabal, Isis and Osiris and their ‘secret knowledge’, etc.

Here is a link to freemason watch. It sounds like (I cannot confirm) this site is maintained by a Catholic:

freemasonrywatch.org/

Mark Wyatt
www.veritas-catholic.blogspot.com


#10

Here is another interesting thread:

forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=85429

Mark Wyatt
www.veritas-catholic.blogspot.com


#11

[quote=trth_skr]If you made it through 32 degrees of SR freemasonry, and saw nothing unChristian, then you were likely not paying attention. Maybe you do not realize it, maybe you worked through it
[/quote]

Trth_skr,
Not only did I pay attention, but I assisted in putting on some of the degrees in the Scottish Rite. Morals and Dogma is not the foundation of the Scottish Rite degree’s but rather Pikes personal commentary on the degrees. I would be suprised if 1 in 50 or 75 masons even owns the book Morals and Dogma, it is just not very big in Masonry any more. Even the link your provided states that it is seperate from the degrees and that it is not used any longer as even a “gift” at the degrees and has not been for over 30 years. Furthermore the preface to Morals and Dogma states that the work is simply Pikes research and certainly has no authority in Freemasonry or on any person. Usually people who do not know much about Masory make a much bigger deal about it than it is.

[quote=trth_skr]You are likely steeped in naturalistic philosophy.
[/quote]

If you are passing this judgement, then I would submit that you are not only ignorant of me, but also of the degrees. You are most likely steeped in anti-masonry that makes as much sense as many of the Anti-Catholics I read. The arguements are based on a lack of understanding of the organization they are attacking.

[quote=trth_skr]Maybe you do not realize it, maybe you worked through it.
[/quote]

Maybe you have not worked through it… and therefore have no clue as to what your talking about?

[quote=trth_skr]It is full of talk of the knowledge of gnostics and the kabal, Isis and Osiris and their ‘secret knowledge’, etc.
[/quote]

Well, since I have only skimmed it and never really cared about the book… (like most other Masons in the US), who cares?? Even Popes in the Catholic Church have done strange things, it certainly doesn’t mean that it is representative of the entire church. Pikes own personal opinions are in now way representative of Masonry. I hate to say it, but your arguing against your own straw man.

[quote=trth_skr]Here is a link to freemason watch. It sounds like (I cannot confirm) this site is maintained by a Catholic:

freemasonrywatch.org/
[/quote]

Thanks for the link… I will check it out.

Brandon


#12

Albert Pike is a pretty prominent and influential Scottish Rite freeemason:

In Freemasonry

He had in the interim joined a Masonic lodge and become extremely active in the affairs of the organization, being elected Sovereign Grand Commander of the Scottish Rite’s Southern Jurisdiction in 1859, also that year having received an honorary Ph.D. from Harvard. He remained Sovereign Grand Commander for the remainder of his life (a total of 32 years), devoting a large amount of his time to perfection of the rituals of the order. Notably, he published a book called Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry in 1872, of which there were several subsequent editions.

Additionally, Pike wrote on several legal subjects, and continued producing poetry, a hobby he had begun in his youth in Massachusetts. His poems were highly regarded in his day, but are now mostly forgotten. Several volumes of his works were self-published posthumously by his daughter.

Pike died in Washington, D.C. and was buried at Oak Hill Cemetery (against his wishes—he had left instructions his body be cremated). In 1944 his remains were moved to the House of the Temple, headquarters of the Southern Jurisdiction of the Scottish Rite.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Pike

An interesting quote from a SR mason:
bessel.org/russo/m&d01.htm
**A SUMMARY OF THE MORALS AND DOGMA OF ALBERT PIKE

BY JASON C. RUSSO 32° **

Despite the disagreements I have with Albert Pike’s religious dogma which he has inculcated into Scottish Rite Masonry, his works do have many profound and philosophical insights of use to us while divorcing ourselves from his religious interpretations of the pagans and polytheists…

Mark Wyatt
www.veritas-catholic.blogspot.com


#13

[quote=trumpet152]I’ve also heard the President Bush is a Freemason. If I may ask, what is the big deal with freemasonry? (I don’t doubt the Chruch, I just wish to know the reasoning.)
[/quote]

the only big deal is that Catholics are forbidden from joining any secret society.

if a Catholic joins a secret society he is automatically excommunicated.


#14

i read a post one time of a man who left the Freemasons. He said the higher he got up in the ranks the more scary it was. He said the symbolism was stopped in anti-Catholic and even satanic imagery.

I know nothing about the Freemasons, but what that man said stuck in my mind.


#15

Can you believe Red Skelton and John Wayne were Masons? :crying:

I did a little research on this last week, mostly by simply reading from a Masonic website. According to their website, you must simply declare a belief in God, ANY God, not necessarily the ONE TRUE GOD. Sounds like a little tool of Satan to get you to deny the existence of the ONE TRUE GOD, wrapped in a cozy little blanket of “tolerance” and “acceptance” of all beliefs. They won’t insist that YOU worship a different god, but they are getting you to “go along” with the idea that *other * gods are ok, just by association. That is so clever, don’t you think? (Sort of like those that say "I would never commit an abortion, but if that other lady wants one, it’s none of my business.) :ehh:

Also, I read that you must swear oaths at several (or all) degree levels, but are not told ahead of time what that oath is. (Weird!) You are however permitted to back out at any point, but what do you think the odds are of that happening…in front of all the other Masons…pride will whisper “just take the stupid oath or you’ll look like a fool!” :tsktsk:


#16

Yes, they call god (small g on purpose) The Grand Architect of the Universe. When someone prays in the Mason Lodge he is not allowed to pray in Jesus name. They also compare the Grand Master Hiram to Christ saying that he raised from the dead, and all Masons should look to him (Hiram) as a model of what they can do with their lives and the possibility that they can acheive the same end. They also (in the higher degrees) swear oaths on other books such as the Koran.


#17

[quote=SDA2RC]Freemasonry is largely a benevolent society in America and is hardly what it was at one time, ie. a large political force. I was a Mason and 32nd degree Scottish Rite Mason, until I joined the Church. I demitted from my lodge because of my desire to be obedient to the Church, but I can honestly say, that I participated in nothing, and encountered nothing, that was contrary to my Christian faith (although not at the time Catholic.)

Furthermore, when I left Masonry, I was never bothered, questioned, or coerced to remain a Mason, the Masons I know all believe that your duty to God, Country, and Family, surpass any loyalty you owe to the lodge, in fact that is part of one of the degrees.

Again, this is US masonry, I cannot speak for Masonry outside the US, which I have heard can be very different.

Peace,
Brandon
[/quote]

My experience is exactly the same. The percieved threat of freemasonry in the US has been blown out of proportion. The funny thing is that as you know to be against a person because of their faith is considered un-masonic and you can technically be brought to trial by your lodge for it. I too was a 32nd degree and helped confer or conferred all of the Blue Lodge degrees and some of the Scottish Rite degrees. I too left my lodge when I found out that it was forbidden to be a freemason as a Catholic even though the CDF prior to Ratzinger being the prefect asserted that the English form of freemasonry would not be problematic which was of course recinded - by Ratzinger in a way.

In fact it was while I was a member of the Lodge that I returned to my faith and they supported me in every way including financially when I decided that I was going to the seminary. However, it was then that I learned about the restriction and it pained me greatly to have to give up a great group of friends who were among them mostly good Jews or good Christians.

One of the problems is that freemasons do not on the whole understand why the Church is condemnitory toward them. They feel that their purposes are completely in line with many of the teachings of the Church. This is true, however what they do not see is that some of the dregrees posit philosophical principles that are not in accord with realism and if used as a foundation of thought could lead to certain errors.

While it is true that in many countries such as Mexico and the Phillipines the freemasons are a huge power structure and are quite corrupt the experience of freemasonry in the US is quite at odds with such experiences. I have always felt that the Church could never give its aprobation to freemasonry because of the troubling groups that exist in the world that either claim to have masonic affiliation or an masonic in nature and are subversive.


#18

[quote=RCCDefender]Yes, they call god (small g on purpose) The Grand Architect of the Universe. When someone prays in the Mason Lodge he is not allowed to pray in Jesus name. They also compare the Grand Master Hiram to Christ saying that he raised from the dead, and all Masons should look to him (Hiram) as a model of what they can do with their lives and the possibility that they can acheive the same end. They also (in the higher degrees) swear oaths on other books such as the Koran.
[/quote]

This is not completely correct. The reason why Jesus’ name is not used in prayer in the Lodge is simply because the prayer is made to God under the title of “The Grand Architect of the Universe” which is in fact a Catholic usage since the early Church. The story of Hiram Abif is not a parallel of Christ in the form of the ressurection but rather ressurection imagry is used to express an intellectual and moral point concerning a death to vice and ignorance and rising to virtue and study. Further oaths in any degree are taken on the “sacred book” of the individuals religion within bounds. Thus in every degree it is generally the OT unless one is taking the York Rite degrees which past the Royal Arch Degrees are exclusively Christian with a vow that includes the defense of Christianity.


#19

[quote=Anonymous_1]i read a post one time of a man who left the Freemasons. He said the higher he got up in the ranks the more scary it was. He said the symbolism was stopped in anti-Catholic and even satanic imagery.

I know nothing about the Freemasons, but what that man said stuck in my mind.
[/quote]

I have heard similar things from people that wanted to discount masonry as evil. An example is that the charge of masonry being contrary to the Gospel and the Baptist faith was made to the Southern Baptist Convention by a man that was formally a mason himself. The Convention called for a man named Gary Leazer (sp?) to investigate the claim. Well, over a long process of investigation not only did he determine that it was not contrary to Christianity but he went so far as to join a lodge himself and found a group dedicated to masonic research. Eventually it was learned that the man who brought the charge was doing so out of a grude and without basis.


#20

[quote=Semper Fi]the only big deal is that Catholics are forbidden from joining any secret society.

if a Catholic joins a secret society he is automatically excommunicated.
[/quote]

This is not quite correct. The restriction is against societies that are subversive to lawful authority or the wellfare of the Church.


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