The ones distorting the facts are the ones removing Christ from His Churches and inviting protestants to celebrate their reformation meanwhile hiding behind the word ‘commemorate’ as if we are fools. And in this case, they didn’t even hide behind the ambiguity of ‘commemorate’ they even say ‘celebrate’
“For the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.”
The SSPX has been very hostile towards the Holy See. Their bishops had their excommunications lifted, they received permission to confess, and even permission and to celebrate marriages (alongside a Catholic priest who actually holds a canonical status in the Church). In return, they keep badmouthing the Holy See and the Holy Father, as well as the Sacraments. Of course, that has a lot to do with the pressure coming from their wealthy lay supporters and from the fact that they are falling apart into this and that “resistance”, which is really becoming a living image of what protestantism went through.
But in any case there’s very little to celebrate. It’s been more of a unilateral effort from so-called “conciliar Rome” to bring them back to their senses, and a constant pushing away from their end, with continuous bashing of their Superior for the mere fact that he is willing to meet with the Holy Father.
So no, I expect the SSPX to be treated like at the Knock Shrine, when they were not allowed to celebrate mass.
The SSPX, as would be expected, has experienced multiple schisms within their own ranks in the short 50 years of their existence, which is what happens once Authority is only recognized when it is convenient. It happened in the age of Luther and it is happening to them as well.
But for those still in the main body of the SSPX, there have been promising steps taken in reuniting them with the Holy See. That is how the Catholic Church operates. It is hungry to bring people into full communion with it.
Which is precisely what was happening at various places across the world on the 500th anniversary of the Reformation. People were actually talking to each other.
Yes, they were talking to each other. Further confirming the diabolical lie that “what unites us is far greater than what divides us”. Not one soul will convert to the Catholic Faith because of that sacrilegious mockery. Rather, they will all go home - both Catholic and Protestant - feeling all warm and fuzzy about how much in common they have. These “ecumenical” ceremonies only serve to solidify indifferentism. Warm and fuzzy feelings. No conversion. Creating the illusion of unity and progress, these diabolical events only serve to affirm the Protestants in their errors and the Catholics with the idea that perhaps the Church isn’t the sole Ark of Salvation.
The Catholic Church has doubled in size since 1970, in spite of so many secular liberal intellectuals saying that it was doomed. In my own country, the American south is experiencing a surge of growing Catholic parishes, in an area that has been thickly protestant for over 200 years. It’s unfortunate that those who consider themselves so zealous agree with the people who are hostile towards Catholicism.
First, you’re putting quantity over quality. What percentage of those Catholics go to Mass? Confession? Know the basic tenets of the Faith? Compare that percentage with 1960. The Church today is largely comprised of indifferent and non-practicing members who are ignorant of even fundamental truths.
Second, you are right that there are more Catholics today than in 1970. Yet, percentage wise, there are far fewer priests and religious per Catholic. Just this year a major European archdiocese had zero new seminarians enter seminary. Seminaries that were thriving at a time when there were far less Catholics in the world than there are now are literally empty. So, you can use out of context statistics to make your point, but the reality remains that the state of the Church is alarming.
Correct. And this scary fact - above everything else - is what is truly alarming. The Divine Commission to “Go and make disciples of all nations” has been abandon in favor of “Go and dialogue with all nations and make sure not to hurt their feelings”.
Is there any moderation left on CAF, or can any troll and reactionary rad-trad just walk in here and spread lies to start a flame war?
I’m out and about to another thread. I think this one has been covered enough. The facts are clear, as are the positions. Now all we need is a decent moderation for users who need a reality check and the little world of CAF would be a better place.
“For the sake of His sorrowful passion, make them stop causing division in Thy Church.”
Let’s assume, for the sake of argument, that the ecumenical service was “bad”; that it somehow compromised the authority of Catholic Magisterium.
Who, exactly, would benefit from this disruption? Not traditional Catholics. It strengthens the hand of those who want to restrict the TLM, which the Left will say is all part of that movement. None of the recent disruptions elsewhere has gained anything for doctrinal orthodoxy.
Not the Protestants. They will be annoyed that their service was disrupted by persons who believe in Catholic doctrine, that sure won’t make them more open to eventually believing in it themselves.
Not liberal Catholics. This hardens them into their present position. NOBODY BENEFITS other than the extreme Left.
Debatable. I already provided a few quotes in the OP, but the parish was quite aggressive in its promotion of Martin Luther and the Reformation…here are the original quotes from one of the videos, as well as a few others for good measure, with timestamps if anyone wants to listen to the French for themselves:
“If the [Catholic] Church today proclaims, studies, and announces the Gospel, we owe this to the Protestant communities, we owe this to Martin Luther and his love of Scripture.” timestamp: 2:18-2:30. (If it wasn’t for Martin Luther, the Church wouldn’t proclaim or study Scripture?)
“[Before] there was a fracture between the [Catholic] liturgy and Scripture. It is thanks to the Protestants that we have been able to reunite liturgy, tradition, and Scripture.” timestamp: 2:57-3:07. (It took Protestants to fix the Mass?)
“I think that the Catholic Church must take it [Protestant Evangelization] as a model, must take it as a model and give thanks to the Lord for what has been accomplished.” timestamp: 5:20-5:26. (Protestants leading others astray into their errors is something we should thank God for?)
“For me, it’s really these things [Protestant study of Scripture and Evangelization] that make me give thanks to the Lord, for Christ, and the proclamation of Christ which the Father has given us.” timestamp: 5:30-5:45. (God the Father gave us “Christ and the proclamation of Christ” through Protestantism?)
“This anniversary obliges us to look towards the future—we’re not looking back at the past, we’re looking towards the future—and if we’re looking towards the future, it’s because we’re able to mutually respect one another, and are therefore able to work together to proclaim the Gospel.” timestamp: 5:59-6:13. (Does all this “mutual respect” leave any room for conversion to the true faith?)
I can’t speak for the actual event, not having been in attendance, but it’s clear that those responsible for it hold views which go quite a bit further than mere appreciation of gestures of unity. It is undeniable that there is a defense of Protestantism and its “fruits”, which are presented generally in a positive light.
The headline is misleading “ejected from church by police”. They were ejected by the Catholic Church. The police responded to a request by the Church, the cops were our agents. The scary thing is that this disruption helps break down the old respect for the Church. It makes it easier for those who want to desecrate, or disrupt Benediction, or interrupt Mass. It sets a precedent, that the church “belongs to the people not to the priest”.
This is essentially what the enemies of the Catholic Church want to convey. “Power to the People!” When you disrupt what you consider a liberal pastor, that makes it more likely the traditional pastor will get disrupted, and it won’t be with rosaries next time.
If you disagree with a service, complain to the proper authorities in the diocese, and if no response, then to the Vatican. Hold a rosary service in a quiet, reverent setting. If you think reverence is valuable, why would you hold a rosary service in what you consider a non reverent setting?
I can picture police in a few years getting a call, the bishop wants our help, they are desecrating the Eucharist, breaking statues, disrupting Benediction, they won’t allow Mass to proceed…Then the police respond, that the Church belongs to the people, not to any “priest”, so let them work it out. No police calls to the church.
That is not an official Catholic position, just an opinion. If anything, we owe that to the invention of the printing press.
Some valid points were raised, the Church took them into consideration, and now the Liturgy has more Scripture and has recovered ancient elements of our Sacred Tradition. But I wouldn’t give “Protestants” all the credit. Still, not a celebration of the Reformation or of Luther.
There are certain elements of reaching out and welcoming that Protestants have and sometimes we lack. That has been recognized before by the Church. There are many good models of evangelization. Some protestants proselytize and shove their beliefs down people’s throats, as do some fundamentalist Catholics. Still not a celebration of the Reformation or of Luther.
A confusing statement, but if it makes him give thanks to God, oh well. Still not celebrating the Reformation or Luther.
Not all the fruits of Protestantism are rotten. I know many converts who are very holy people, and many holy people who never converted and yet we study them because their theological reflections are very sound in some areas. We also have a whole Anglican ordinariate and we kept many of their liturgies and prayers intact. Some people are so angry at “protestants”, but they are not spawns of the Devil.
Now some celebrations do go south and push too much the “we are so happy the Reformation took place” argument. That’s not the official Catholic position! Cardinal Muller gave a very good interview on the matter. Sadly the only English translation is given by a website with an agenda, but it is a good translation (I speak the language and I checked ).