Fresh Starting: Protestants


#1

Ok, am one of those who do not differentiate between Christians and i never lived this contentions or even felt it. I don’t know all the differences between Catholics and Protestants. I want a fresh start .

I’LL start with OSAS idea. Please state why you believe it with references from the Bible and what does it really mean.

to all: please ONLY ONE idea can be discussed.


#2

I know of VERY few OSAS believers on this forum. I think I’m familiar enough with it to tell you what they believe and why, but it’d be better if they speak for themselves. So I’ll wait a bit and see if one of them responds first.


#3

yes Syele thank you…this is supposed to be their place…after they explain ALL their position, anyone can present the Catholic view.


#4

Oh, I’m not Catholic. :wink: My purpose for being on this forum is to help people learn about protestantism since when I used to lurk only (A long while ago) I saw many misconceptions.


#5

btw, i thought the OSAS is a Protestant doctrine that all Protestants believe in. If this is not the case, and if it is just a theological opinion that few believe in, then i’ll let the first Protestant who reads this thread decide the topic he wants to adress with Catholics


#6

LOL see? i didn’t even look at your profile :smiley:


#7

LOL :smiley: I just didn’t know if any OSAS protestants are around. If not, I think I can give a convincing argument for their side. :stuck_out_tongue:


#8

fine no prob. If you know about it, go ahead because i really want to know what this OSAS is all about.


#9

No OSAS is not something all protestants believe. Give me a few minutes to think about the answer since I don’t believe it, I want to be sure I represent it correctly.


#10

I’ll start with a quick summary.

First comes the belief in predestination. God is in complete control of everything and has decided in advance His soverign plan for the world. Mere men cannot do anything at all to change this plan. God decided before he made the world about who would be saved. This decesion was not made based on anything that person would or would not do at any point in their lives. Then He extended His grace to those He chose and compels them to a belief in Him. Man is not more powerful than God and cannot resist this extended Grace. God never makes mistakes and if He decides to save you, it cannot be undone.

By OSAS to say that you can lose your slavation (to them) asserts that:

  1. God is not in control
  2. Jesus failed in His work as our Redeemer
  3. Satan is Glorified
  4. God breaks His promises

So you can see why they get rather upset at the idea of losing their salvation.

That is the basic progression, simplified. For someone who believes this, to say you can lose salvation denies the power of God to do what He chooses and sets man above God.

[quote= an OSAS preacher]By the way, if a person could be saved then lost again, the best thing we could do is just have a big iron pipe ready when somebody gets saved, knock them on the head while they were still saved, before they lose it so they won’t die and go to hell. You will be better off. If you are saved now, and you believe you can lose your salvation, the best thing to do is drive your car off that high-rise bridge down yonder, and go on to heaven while you are still saved. I would rather die right now and go to heaven, than to live on for forty years and lose my salvation in the process and die and go to hell. So, the best thing to do is get somebody to shoot you while you are still saved.
[/quote]

Hang on and I’ll go get the supporting scripture…


#11

There are abundant passages that speak of the believer receiving eternal and everlasting life. If you could “lose” it, then the word eternal has lost its meaning.

For scripture on the logical progression part I mentioned see the Canons of Dort.

CARM has a dialogue between two protestants with opposing views on the topic.


#12

Ok Syele thank you…i’ll check the arguments and assess…and you bet, i already got questions!! thank you again :slight_smile:


#13

that was alot I threw out really quickly, I hope it was at least somewhat clear. I’m happy to clear up any questions.

(I just feel the need to repeat for anyone else on the thread that I’m NOT OSAS though!)


#14

ok i think the point of contention is very subtle. Are we saved by grace or by work? if not mistaken, we are saved by grace because our work is not enough, but this does not mean our work is not important because faith without work is not faith. So first grace then work. if we say grace alone is not enough, OSAS believers will ask back: so God is not enough? ok i understand this position…but what if i do smth wrong? OSAS answer is: you won’t if you are elected…so it’s a circle.

Predestination? election? isn’t it too gloomy?

if i kill, does it mean God made me kill cuz He pre-determined what i’ll do?:confused: so God created me to send me to hell cuz am not elected :confused:
which begs the question: is this life a play where anyone plays his pre-determined role without choice?:confused:


#15

in Calvinism Is there isn’t really any free-will.

1. Total Inability or Total Depravity Because of the fall, man is unable of himself to savingly believe the gospel. The sinner is dead, blind, and deaf to the things of God; his heart is deceitful and desperately corrupt. His will is not free, it is in bondage to his evil nature, therefore, he will not–indeed he cannot–choose good over evil in the spiritual realm. Consequently, it takes much more than the Spirit’s assistance to bring a sinner to Christ–it takes regeneration by which the Spirit makes the sinner alive and gives him a new nature. Faith is not something man contributes to salvation but is itself a part of God’s gift of salvation–it is God’s gift to the sinner, not the sinner’s gift to God.


#16

oh Lord, i don’t know how can all God’s mercy fit into all this. It’s too gloomy.

So Syele, the OSAS is belief based on personal choice and not a Protestant doctrine. Which means it is NOT a point of contension between Protestantism and Catholicism right?


#17

Most protestants are either Calvinist or Arminian. Or they mix the two together. (Like saying they are a 3 point Calvinist or 4 point etc)

So if a person is OSAS it would be a big point of contension between them and Catholicism. But for the Arminian it is not nearly such a big issue.


#18

which means it is a Protestant versus Catholicism and not Protestantism…so it’s an individualistic matter right?


#19

I suppose that is accurate. Generally particular denominations are solidly in one camp or another. For example, I never met a Baptist that was not OSAS.


#20

oh so here we must know what Protestant we are dealing with. So again it is not Protestantism, but branches within it.

Who are the Protestants?
1- Anglicans
2-Calvinist
3- Evangelical
4-Pentecostal
5-?
6-?

so Catholics do not have to deal with Protestantism as a whole but with many Protestantisms? so it’s not Catholics versus Protestants but Catholics versus number 1,2,3,4.5 ecc and it depends on what kind of Protestans you are…correct so far?


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