Friend's False Claims


#1

Currently my friend is attacking my faith constantly (and has been since I came back to the Church). He says that the sex abuse scandal was caused by the system. My friend claims that if priests were allowed to have sex they would not have done these things. He says that I am just worried “My beloved church is falling”.

What can I do to refute his claims? Thanks so much.


#2

[quote=john_794]Currently my friend is attacking my faith constantly (and has been since I came back to the Church). He says that the sex abuse scandal was caused by the system. My friend claims that if priests were allowed to have sex they would not have done these things. He says that I am just worried “My beloved church is falling”.

What can I do to refute his claims? Thanks so much.
[/quote]

I have been hit with the same argument. Ask your freind ,if you were on an Island with only children and no adults would he be compelled to have sex with them. That is a thin argument,the fact that they are called to celibacy doesn’t somehow cause them to be pedafiles.That is just another lame attempt to reduce our responsibility to that of dogs in heat:rolleyes: God Bless


#3

You might want to reevaluate your friendship.

Why would someone continually criticize a “friend’s” deeply held beliefs?

If indeed he is that critical of the Church, is he a real friend. On the other hand, maybe he is envious that you have found happiness by returning to the Church.


#4

IMO, your friend is using a news headline to mask his low reguard (or hate) for Holy Mother Church.

Your friend is not being honest with you. You said this happened when you came back to the Church, right? Your friend probably doesn’t know enough aaabout the Church to adequately attack the Church. If that’s all he has, IGNORE HIM!


#5

With friends like this, who needs enemies? Get a new friend.
Paul


#6

[quote=john_794]Currently my friend is attacking my faith constantly (and has been since I came back to the Church). He says that the sex abuse scandal was caused by the system. My friend claims that if priests were allowed to have sex they would not have done these things. He says that I am just worried “My beloved church is falling”.

What can I do to refute his claims? Thanks so much.
[/quote]

It’s not true, married men abuse children, so did being married stop them from being abusers ? Here check this out and show it to your friend, so that you can cure his/her tunnell vision.
kensmen.com/catholic/clergysexabuse.html

I can post more, but whats the point, there is none so blind as those that will not see.
It’s all bad regardless from where it comes.


#7

[quote=john_794]Currently my friend is attacking my faith constantly (and has been since I came back to the Church). He says that the sex abuse scandal was caused by the system. My friend claims that if priests were allowed to have sex they would not have done these things. He says that I am just worried “My beloved church is falling”.

What can I do to refute his claims? Thanks so much.
[/quote]

Tell your friend that around 65% of sexual abusers are married or in a commited relationship.


#8

[quote=Stephen-Maguire]It’s not true, married men abuse children, so did being married stop them from being abusers ? Here check this out and show it to your friend, so that you can cure his/her tunnell vision.
kensmen.com/catholic/clergysexabuse.html

I can post more, but whats the point, there is none so blind as those that will not see.
It’s all bad regardless from where it comes.
[/quote]

I just got to your post… I agree, I could go on and on too, but people like this “friend” don’t want to know the truth.


#9

Ask your friend to explain why school teachers, coaches, scout leaders, doctors, lawyers and protestant ministers engage in child sex abuse. These are just a few of the occupations that have confirmed (prosecuted and found guilty of) cases of child abuse. Not one of these occupations requires celibacy as a condition of employment. Celibacy does not ‘cause’ a person to become a sexual predator. Fathers, brothers and uncles have all practiced incest, but we would never say that being a father causes incest. Celibacy does not cause homosexual tendencies, a desire for sex with children, the desire to rape or kill. Celibacy is practicing self control and living a chaste life, nothing more and othing less. Many people live happy ‘celicate’ lives who are not priests.

It is a sad but true fact that the Catholic priesthood like all occupations has a few bad characters. We are blessed that the numbers are very low. Most of our priests are holy men who are dedicating their lives to the service of God and man.

I would hazard a guess that your friend has other ‘issues’ with the church and is using this as a straw man argument.

My prayers are with you. I have had the same attacks made to me. When confronted with real life examples they usually find another topic.

Peace


#10

[quote=YADA]Ask your friend to explain why school teachers, coaches, scout leaders, doctors, lawyers and protestant ministers engage in child sex abuse. These are just a few of the occupations that have confirmed (prosecuted and found guilty of) cases of child abuse. Not one of these occupations requires celibacy as a condition of employment. Celibacy does not ‘cause’ a person to become a sexual predator. Fathers, brothers and uncles have all practiced incest, but we would never say that being a father causes incest. Celibacy does not cause homosexual tendencies, a desire for sex with children, the desire to rape or kill. Celibacy is practicing self control and living a chaste life, nothing more and othing less. Many people live happy ‘celicate’ lives who are not priests.

It is a sad but true fact that the Catholic priesthood like all occupations has a few bad characters. We are blessed that the numbers are very low. Most of our priests are holy men who are dedicating their lives to the service of God and man.

I would hazard a guess that your friend has other ‘issues’ with the church and is using this as a straw man argument.

My prayers are with you. I have had the same attacks made to me. When confronted with real life examples they usually find another topic.

Peace

[/quote]

With part of my work I meet with parole and sex offenders… The meeting is set up with a psychologist there and law enforcement. the idea is to get law enforcement fimiliar with these offenders. Anyways, sometimes the push from the Dr. is celibacy depending on the type of offender the person is.


#11

[quote=john_794]Currently my friend is attacking my faith constantly (and has been since I came back to the Church). He says that the sex abuse scandal was caused by the system. My friend claims that if priests were allowed to have sex they would not have done these things. He says that I am just worried “My beloved church is falling”.

What can I do to refute his claims? Thanks so much.
[/quote]

and the fact is that the real issue is not pedophilia, which is sex with minors (less than 13 years of age and usually of both sexes). The priest scandal was more than 75% homosexual acts with adolescents over the age of 13 (technically called ephebophilia), and these numbers are from the very good John Jay study (let me know if you need a link, I don’t have it handy). Celibacy had nothing to do with it as others have pointed out, and the overwhelming majority of the cases involve homosexuals not pedophiles. Pray for your friend and may God keep your faith strong.


#12

[quote=john_794]Currently my friend is attacking my faith constantly (and has been since I came back to the Church). He says that the sex abuse scandal was caused by the system. My friend claims that if priests were allowed to have sex they would not have done these things. He says that I am just worried “My beloved church is falling”.

What can I do to refute his claims? Thanks so much.
[/quote]

He’s full of baloney. The scandal has nothing to do with celibacy though there’s no excuse for it . I suggest the special report on it on it on this site. catholic.com/library/A_Crisis_of_Saints.asp
also Beginning Apologetics 1 from San Juan Catholic Seminars catholicapologetics.com/
has great answers to this and a lot of other questions & allegations. You might also point out that statistically most pedophiles are married. It sounds to me that he’s just mad at you for going Catholic and you need to call him on it and just let him know that you’d appreciate it if he’d just back up off your faith since you don’t attack what he believes. Ask him if “the system” caused the sex abuses that they have uncovered among teachers which is far more prevalent and more covered up than the one in the Catholic Church. You may lose this person as a friend because it sounds like he’s really unkind in his attacks & I have to question his real motives. Read the things I have suggested and it will equip you to give good answers. I have a best friend that is SDA and we will have to talk about my return to the faith eventually, but I think we’ll be okay. Always remember to pray faithfully for this friend of yours.The Holy Spirit is the spirit of truth and will lead him to it. Just trust Him to give you the right words & wisdom to answer. :thumbsup:


#13

[quote=john_794]Currently my friend is attacking my faith constantly (and has been since I came back to the Church). He says that the sex abuse scandal was caused by the system. My friend claims that if priests were allowed to have sex they would not have done these things. He says that I am just worried “My beloved church is falling”.

What can I do to refute his claims? Thanks so much.
[/quote]

It may have been aggravated by the system - but not caused by it.

There is certainly a good case for allowing clerical marriage - it’s apostolic, after all - but, human frailty will always find ways of coming to the surface, marriage or no marriage. What is needed is chastity, for the love of God - not marriage or the prohibition of marriage.

The Church is not ours, but Christ’s - I think He can be trusted to preserve it; don’t you ?


#14

[quote=john_794]Currently my friend is attacking my faith constantly (and has been since I came back to the Church). He says that the sex abuse scandal was caused by the system. My friend claims that if priests were allowed to have sex they would not have done these things. He says that I am just worried “My beloved church is falling”.

What can I do to refute his claims? Thanks so much.
[/quote]

Tell him, if that is true, the Judas betrayed Christ because Christ did not let Judas have money. If Christ would have given Judas money then Judas would have never betrayed him.


#15

[quote=john_794]Currently my friend is attacking my faith constantly (and has been since I came back to the Church). He says that the sex abuse scandal was caused by the system. My friend claims that if priests were allowed to have sex they would not have done these things. He says that I am just worried “My beloved church is falling”.

What can I do to refute his claims? Thanks so much.
[/quote]

If that were true, then there should likewise be absolutely no case of Protestant pastors committing similar sex-oriented offenses. The whole claim is a case of post-hoc, ergo propter hoc reasoning.

As one poster suggested, you should probably reevaluate your relationship with this friend of yours. His behaviour shows gross disrespect for your friendship.

Gerry :slight_smile:


#16

pedophiles are pedophiles regardless of marriage


#17

[quote=abcdefg]pedophiles are pedophiles regardless of marriage
[/quote]

Correct. Pedophilia has nothing to do with priestly celibacy and chastity. Lumping the two issues together[celibacy and pedophilia] is a gross oversimplification at best, and malicious deception at worst.

Gerry :slight_smile:


#18

[quote=jimmy]Tell him, if that is true, the Judas betrayed Christ because Christ did not let Judas have money. If Christ would have given Judas money then Judas would have never betrayed him.
[/quote]

Heck, Jesus entrusted Judas with the money bag, which he stole from (John 12:6). To put it into context in the sex abuse scandal, it would be like a polygamist committing pedophilia. If he has all these women to sleep with, then why does he need to have sex with kids?


#19

Another great point that I heard a while back from Father Corapi went something like this. If a priest can’t stay committed to his vows to the church that he made when he was ordained, what makes anyone think that he will stay true to marriage vows? Just food for thought.

Luke


#20

[quote=Luke]Another great point that I heard a while back from Father Corapi went something like this. If a priest can’t stay committed to his vows to the church that he made when he was ordained, what makes anyone think that he will stay true to marriage vows? Just food for thought.

Luke
[/quote]

Such a priest should never have been a priest in the first place. The priesthood is a sacred commitment and they should have known this from the start.

No one, in the first place forced them to become priests.

Gerry :slight_smile:


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